Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[zerocrossing]

Amplitube 4 - nope. I revisited some discussions n tips online re the input gain needing to be tweaked a lot and lots of messing w Cabs and IRs required. Cbf. Uninstalled.

I like IK's 'Fulltone Collection' (distortion, chorus, and delay, maybe distortion unit is too loud by default?) Covers most of what I like, maybe you could test it via Custom Shop? I'll try the Kuassa soon, I hope.
Cheers

Other than input gain, there is no more "messing with cabs and IRs required," than you'd have with an actual amp. You can, if you want, but it's definitely not "required." v5 comes with such a great selection of everything that you can find the models of everything you want after an afternoon and just ignore what you don't like.

[Uncle E]

I got my Yamaha DG1000. I like it, it doesn't sound like any other digital amp I've tried, or have any of the issues normally found with digital amps. This sort of gets this back on topic, as I noticed that it doesn't respond nearly as well to dirt pedals in front of it as the Boss preamp does. Perhaps it will respond better to a digital effect pedal?

Yes, I've had that experience with older digital units, as well. Your GL-100 works because it's all analog, just with transistors being overloaded instead of tubes. Tonex works well with overdrives if you start with a high gain capture and then turn the gain knob down, or go the opposite way and use a pedal before it to lower the input volume, so that turning the pedal off is the gain boost.

[glokraw]

Tried the Kuassa360 demo in a linux setup, loaded a Fender-Super-Reverb .nam file,
added a couple Kuassa pedals, and an instance of NI's Replika, making a nice project for enjoyment/practice. It's fun to accompany movies etc. I like the replacement capability of chain content, but would like a config option to bypass verifying the replacement. I'm not likely to choose an item, then drag and drop it, if I really didn't want to ...but overall, it's pretty easy to make useful setups. And if authorization and price are friendly, might consider a purchase.
Cheers

Kuassa360Rep;ika.jpg

[Naillerz78]

Tried the Kuassa360 demo in a linux setup, loaded a Fender-Super-Reverb .nam file,
added a couple Kuassa pedals, and an instance of NI's Replika, making a nice project for enjoyment/practice. It's fun to accompany movies etc. I like the replacement capability of chain content, but would like a config option to bypass verifying the replacement. I'm not likely to choose an item, then drag and drop it, if I really didn't want to ...but overall, it's pretty easy to make useful setups. And if authorization and price are friendly, might consider a purchase.
Cheers

Kuassa360Rep;ika.jpg

Cool!
Yes that verification window is super annoying.
“Are u sure u really want to replace this? Click Y/N”

Yea. I’m using the drag and drop replacement function to replace. Thanks for stopping me do that tho. Grrr!

I do like the funky flashy graphics in 360. makes a difference that stuff imo.

[glokraw]

Guitar Rig 6 sounds very ‘fat’ and ‘wider’ in comparison to some of the others like Amplitube THU & Kuassa. (IMHO) when it’s working. Must google if I can fix the cpu overload issue im having.

NI might be polling the net for your usage stats in the backround. That can be turned off. Might be good to check the processes/services running when GR6 is loaded, and also compare the standalone with an instance in a daw. Pulling external hardware like dvd, usb drives, ethernet cable can help.
Windows likes to snoop, using your own cpu cycles
Cheers

[Naillerz78]

Guitar Rig 6 sounds very ‘fat’ and ‘wider’ in comparison to some of the others like Amplitube THU & Kuassa. (IMHO) when it’s working. Must google if I can fix the cpu overload issue im having.

NI might be polling the net for your usage stats in the backround. That can be turned off. Might be good to check the processes/services running when GR6 is loaded, and also compare the standalone with an instance in a daw. Pulling external hardware like dvd, usb drives, ethernet cable can help.
Windows likes to snoop, using your own cpu cycles
Cheers

I will check that cheers
I think it could be laptop spec tho. It’s a lowly Acer Aspire 1 w a celeron N4500 2 core cpu 1.1Ghz w 8GB ram.
Didn’t realise it was so low spec when I picked it up cheap tbh.

I’ve gone back to my trusty old ToneLib GFX amp sim. It based on an old Zoom modeller I believe . It has quite a full sound tho and minimal fizz. Does the job well for noodling imo.
Defs prefer it to Amplitube 4 or THU ( I hate that sim it’s a mess)

[glokraw]

I have an old desktop with i7 quadcore cpu, 8 threads, 3400 mhz, and Reaper daw, that some say has excellent thread/core support. In the standalone GR6, the cleaner setups run around 10%, and adding multiple delays/reverbs with long tails, as some of the presets do, can take it above 50% etc.

I shut that down, and added a Reaper with olllldddd CM Fuzz as the ampsim, under 10 % cpu, and loaded NI's Replika, Raum, and Phasis, with some exhorbitant long tails, feedback and diffusion settings, and the cpu stayed under 25%. A lot of the GR6 presets are busy with things I know little or nothing about, but perhaps in less powerful computers, one can use some cpu-heavy NI plugins outside of GR6, and discover replacements to fill out the chains as NI presents them, in a more economical collection.

I loaded my favorite preset from favorite ampsim, BlueCat Axiom, having crunch, reverb and delay pedals, and it registered 37% cpu before plucking, so all these fine popular tools seem to exact a price for excellence, and for those with beast-zone cpu/graphics setups, the gui/workflow/sound quality, may transcend the cpu efficiency...supremacy by brute force There are NI experts around, who would have actual, less theoretical insights to share regarding Guitar Rig, which to me is a bit like a University effect curriculum, sans the professor

[revvy]

When I play bass, the last thing I want to do is get software involved. I’ve got a nice amp and great pedals which include a DI box at the end to XLR into the comp for recording.

Love guitar hardware, no need for guitar software.

[Naillerz78]

Amplitube 4 - nope. I revisited some discussions n tips online re the input gain needing to be tweaked a lot and lots of messing w Cabs and IRs required. Cbf. Uninstalled.

I like IK's 'Fulltone Collection' (distortion, chorus, and delay, maybe distortion unit is too loud by default?) Covers most of what I like, maybe you could test it via Custom Shop? I'll try the Kuassa soon, I hope.
Cheers

Other than input gain, there is no more "messing with cabs and IRs required," than you'd have with an actual amp. You can, if you want, but it's definitely not "required." v5 comes with such a great selection of everything that you can find the models of everything you want after an afternoon and just ignore what you don't like.

Ok . I reinstalled the demo of A5.
How do I set the input gain in the sim for the Marshalls ? Was it ~17DB reduction you said?
Is it different adjustment for every amp head?
I’ll be trying the Fenders also mainly and the Orange.

Atm I’m messing with Nembrinis AC30 sim and ToneLib Gfx atm. Demoed some Neural DSP sims again .. really don’t get why they are so highly rated.
What would be your pick for a Vox AC sim and a Fender sim … A5 ?

Also did a recording of the Bias Spark 2 at the shop the other day must upload it . Quite impressive and huge sounding combo.

[Naillerz78]

Here’s a lil demo of the bias fx Spark 2 combo using a Jet HSS S-style guitar;

Clip 1
https://voca.ro/1jfUa9nlL8Mw

Clip 2
https://voca.ro/11WDSRgKhMBn

Not sure what the overdriven amp model was but sounded huge.maybe a mesa or soldano perhaps.

Can’t find the info on the webpage but wow that’s a whole Lotta sales copy, images and videos on the product page !
https://www.positivegrid.com/products/s ... 2628030624

It’s $499 AUD here in Australia.
I’ll probably buy this
My neighbours are gonna be hella pissed .

[zerocrossing]

Amplitube 4 - nope. I revisited some discussions n tips online re the input gain needing to be tweaked a lot and lots of messing w Cabs and IRs required. Cbf. Uninstalled.

I like IK's 'Fulltone Collection' (distortion, chorus, and delay, maybe distortion unit is too loud by default?) Covers most of what I like, maybe you could test it via Custom Shop? I'll try the Kuassa soon, I hope.
Cheers

Other than input gain, there is no more "messing with cabs and IRs required," than you'd have with an actual amp. You can, if you want, but it's definitely not "required." v5 comes with such a great selection of everything that you can find the models of everything you want after an afternoon and just ignore what you don't like.

Ok . I reinstalled the demo of A5.
How do I set the input gain in the sim for the Marshalls ? Was it ~17DB reduction you said?
Is it different adjustment for every amp head?
I’ll be trying the Fenders also mainly and the Orange.

Atm I’m messing with Nembrinis AC30 sim and ToneLib Gfx atm. Demoed some Neural DSP sims again .. really don’t get why they are so highly rated.
What would be your pick for a Vox AC sim and a Fender sim … A5 ?

Also did a recording of the Bias Spark 2 at the shop the other day must upload it . Quite impressive and huge sounding combo.

I can't answer, because I don't know your setup, but here's what I do. I set my audio interface's input so that when I'm strumming a chord as loud as I can, I'm in the yellow range of my UAD's input, but never clipping. At that point, I either move the input all the way down to -15 db, or if I want to push the amp, -7. Zero works OK, but I find it limits the dynamics too much. You can always toss a boost pedal in your chain. There's a Ross one that works well, very transparent, but sometimes I'll use a compressor with very little compression and more gain.

After that, just treat each amp like an amp. Some amps sound better than others when pushed. Old Fenders sound better run hot with low input, same with the models. I hate spring reverb, so I just use the room mics, but if I really want that spring, I use the included Fender spring effect and not what's in the amps, which seems too overwhelming. DON'T USE THE PRESETS. They generally suck, IMO. I just start with a default and then select an amp which will auto elect the appropriate cabinet. I'll tweak the amp tone controls until I get it like I want it, and then I usually just mic the cab the way I would IRL. I'm a fan of a good ol' SM57 at the center of the cone and maybe some other condenser at some point between the center and edge. Move/mix to taste, as one would in the studio. Make sure the studio mixer isn't clipping at any point, as IRL.

[Naillerz78]

This is a pretty good guide re settings and gain staging etc imo at about 13min in;



This guy has solved the issues I have w sims !! whoop!



I think I’ll be going down this road now and using my just Joyo pedals & IRs.

I’ve already spent roughly 2000 hours at this point trying to get sims to work and CBF anymore, (never mind all the gear I bought and sold like interfaces, monitors, headphones and most sadly decent guitars ) . That’s a lot of time wasted and time is precious. I’m done now.
Will delete most of them tonite off mah hard drive (boo hoo!)

It’s all been a MEGA pain in the a$$ my amp sim journey feeling pretty duped after it all.It feels good to finally give up say f**k it and quit trying tbh .

To me it’s a case of ..’sure. amp sims recorded can sound just like real amps recorded. Just after a shit ton of tweaking, layering and EQing. ‘ that’s the caveat to the debate .always.

I have to point out something tho.. *IF* they ARE indeed so good and so many folks are getting such great results w them…why is there SO many of them on the market ? There must be 300+ at this point over the 5 few years. Maybe 500. 1000(?)

Something is very fishy about that to me.

[Uncle E]

In the new Tonex Brown Sound 78/79 Collection, there's a patch called Devil's Race 89 that's absolutely the closest I've ever gotten to sounding like EVH, even compared to real Marshall's.

[Naillerz78]

In the new Tonex Brown Sound 78/79 Collection, there's a patch called Devil's Race 89 that's absolutely the closest I've ever gotten to sounding like EVH, even compared to real Marshall's.

That’s pretty cool. I’d like to find that someday ..just plug in an go “WOW” and that’s the end.

These Bogren AmpKnob sims are the ideal.
1 knob. That’s it. It pretty much HAS to sound good from the get go. If I don’t like it , that’s also the end and I bin in 5 minutes. No “user error” excuses.

[zerocrossing]

In the new Tonex Brown Sound 78/79 Collection, there's a patch called Devil's Race 89 that's absolutely the closest I've ever gotten to sounding like EVH, even compared to real Marshall's.

That’s pretty cool. I’d like to find that someday ..just plug in an go “WOW” and that’s the end.

These Bogren AmpKnob sims are the ideal.
1 knob. That’s it. It pretty much HAS to sound good from the get go. If I don’t like it , that’s also the end and I bin in 5 minutes. No “user error” excuses.

Well, the only amp I ever came across that had a single knob on it was the Brian May Edition Vox AC30. It's modeled in Amplitube's Brian May pack, but how well? Not sure. I get it to sound fantastic, but I found the presets to be terrible. That could very well be because I'm feeding it a guitar that's wildly unlike Brian's guitar. When I forget the presets and just use it on its own, it sounds very good to me... but then I'm putting some sort of EQ either before or after to adjust things. I mean... I guess I just don't want to always sound like one specific tone, and the beauty of amp controls is that it gives you that flexibility.

That sort of describes why I moved to amp modelers in the first place. I used to have multi-channel amps, but basically get a single preferred setting per channel and leave it there. I'd even use stickers to show me what my settings were so when they got moved in transit I'd be able to quickly get back to my "preset." But the 2 or 3 channels were never enough for the range of sounds I wanted in a show, so I was always using pedals with EQs, gain and boost to get various alternatives.

This always meant "tap dancing," which when you're trying to sing and play can be a royal PITA. Amp modelers allowed me to go from a cranked Bassman with a gain boost in front of it to the lead channel of a Mesa Rectifier with a flanger after it in a single step. That's the kind of thing I always do in a live show.

But I'm a tweaker, and I always have been. Maybe it was because I started out with such crap gear that I was always trying to get something from garbage. Like making sausage because you don't have good cuts of meat. I also was inspired to play music from The Beatles, and not from She Loves You, but from I Am The Walrus. My absolute favorite period was Revolver through the White Album. I'm more into conventional guitar sounds, these days, but that's only because I'm deeper into synthesis, which is really the penultimate for tweaking.