Does Bitwig seem like a daw that very few people want? Kind of a rant I guess.

[Cyoon]

Could be a dosen of reasons, not backed by evidence from the user base here at least.

You're obviously not paying attention then. You now have two users reporting on this thread and at least one with regular communications to support that. There are other past threads addressing this also. I won't waste time pointing out what you obviously insist on denying.

Given what the OP has shared in this thread, it's questionable if that is a reasonable judgement. You still seem to miss to provide any evidence backed by a test or comparison or something, while I pointed to a thread with a user recently making a test on a mini pc with good results. So, just because somebody talks a lot on online forums, it is no measure of anything. But, good luck then with whatever you feel not comfortable with.

[Nathanananan]

"KVR isn't a place for:

Obtaining or discussing warez, cracks, porn, politics, etc.
Flames/Stupid arguments.
Elite-ness/Egos/One-upmanship/Penis comparison/Parent fights/etc.
Format wars (Please...) /Host wars (Come on, try now...) /Platform wars (Leave it Darren, it's not worth it...).
Trolling. Respect one another and they will respect you.

We hope you enjoy your stay "

[Nathanananan]

"KVR isn't a place for:

Obtaining or discussing warez, cracks, porn, politics, etc.
Flames/Stupid arguments.
Elite-ness/Egos/One-upmanship/Penis comparison/Parent fights/etc.
Format wars (Please...) /Host wars (Come on, try now...) /Platform wars (Leave it Darren, it's not worth it...).
Trolling. Respect one another and they will respect you.

We hope you enjoy your stay "

[machinesworking]

"KVR isn't a place for:

Obtaining or discussing warez, cracks, porn, politics, etc.
Flames/Stupid arguments.
Elite-ness/Egos/One-upmanship/Penis comparison/Parent fights/etc.
Format wars (Please...) /Host wars (Come on, try now...) /Platform wars (Leave it Darren, it's not worth it...).
Trolling. Respect one another and they will respect you.

We hope you enjoy your stay "

As if that ever gets paid attention to around here.

[revvy]

"KVR isn't a place for:

Obtaining or discussing warez, cracks, porn, politics, etc.
Flames/Stupid arguments.
Elite-ness/Egos/One-upmanship/Penis comparison/Parent fights/etc.
Format wars (Please...) /Host wars (Come on, try now...) /Platform wars (Leave it Darren, it's not worth it...).
Trolling. Respect one another and they will respect you.

We hope you enjoy your stay "

[pdxindy]

Well, Bitwig is more about modulation than traditional automation, and it is top dog there. Different approach. Definitely less standard though sure.

Yup... different approach. When project/group level macros were added in V5 that was fantastic! (meant less automation needed)

And of course everyone should use what works for them. Bitwig is easily my favorite DAW to get from point A to point B with minimal friction.

[stoopicus]

I actually appreciate it for being different. I feel like I have much more overlap in terms of similarities between my other two main DAW (Reaper and Logic) to the point that owning both is sort of superfluous. Bitwig is not that way.

Of course this doesn't stop me from wanting to see how Cubase is doing every couple years either

[apoclypse]

Well, Bitwig is more about modulation than traditional automation, and it is top dog there. Different approach. Definitely less standard though sure.

Sorry but this is just starting to sound like an excuse and people apologizing for why Bitwig can't do something as basic as ripple editing and block automation in 2025. I don't need to hear about modulation anymore. Great that Bitwig does that but a modern DAW that can't edit and arrange properly imo doesn't have its priorities straight no matter what their supposed focus is.

Automation editing should never be an afterthought in a modern DAW imo. We can argue about the rudimentary PR, maybe not everyone needs all the features on more modern piano rolls, but automation and ripple editing are imo the basics of basics that a DAW should get right and that should work well. I'm not even talking about complicated automation like automation curves or automation warping, I'm talking about something as simple as block editing. Select a range of time in Bitwig while in automation mode. Drag down. What should happen is that 4 points get automatically created within that time and the 2 points within that time should move as a block up and down without affecting point outside of that time selection. I don't know a DAW that doesn't do this. Studio One, Logic, Ableton, Protools, Cubase, etc. except Bitwig. This is really simple stuff that help immensely when using the arranger.

Ripple editing is another big issue for me. It's extremely annoying when trying to arrange a track and Bitwig just copies over existing clips instead of moving them over. Its a death by a thousand cuts with Bitwig. The arrange seems like its going to be more useful than Ableton's because it looks more like Cubase or Logic. But that's only at the surface level, in practice its way behind Ableton in-terms of actual usefulness. I didn't notice this until recently when I had to do a more involved arrangement and ran into frustration.

[pdxindy]

Ripple editing is another big issue for me.

The ripple editing is only partly implemented. For example, you can ripple duplicate and ripple cut, but ripple paste doesn't work. There is a shortcut for it but it does nothing.

I've reported it as a bug. Please do the same.

[stamp]

I don't get all the ''it's 2025'' fluff. Comparing Bitwig with daws that have double if not triple the development time doesn't make any sense. Bitwig is eleven years old. Ableton was 11 years old in 2012 and was missing a lot more stuff than Bitwig is now. Logic, Cubase, etc are all born as linear daws and this is why their arrangement capabilities are a lot stronger than Bitwig's.
As every other daw Bitwig has some minor and major flaws but it's not like we are talking about real showstoppers, just inconveniences.
Are this shortcomings frustrating? Yes they are. Could Bitwig be better? Of course. But, hey.. It's just the way it is.
As I see it Bitwig is doing great and it can only get better.

[apoclypse]

I don't get all the ''it's 2025'' fluff. Comparing Bitwig with daws that have double if not triple the development time doesn't make any sense. Bitwig is eleven years old. Ableton was 11 years old in 2012 and was missing a lot more stuff than Bitwig is now. Logic, Cubase, etc are all born as linear daws and this is why their arrangement capabilities are a lot stronger than Bitwig's.
As every other daw Bitwig has some minor and major flaws but it's not like we are talking about real showstoppers, just inconveniences.
Are this shortcomings frustrating? Yes they are. Could Bitwig be better? Of course. But, hey.. It's just the way it is.
As I see it Bitwig is doing great and it can only get better.

That makes no sense. For one Ableton addressed these issues long ago. By version 11 a lot of the issues with automation and the arranger were resolved. Even so they had ripple editing since way before that and automation editing in blocks has been thing since forever in Ableton, certainly since version 9 if not before.

We are going to have to stop making excuses for Bitwig at this point. They've had plenty of time to address these issues. I'm not asking for a new PR, or something revolutionary I'm asking for basic functionality that the majority of DAWs have in 2025. That's why its disconcerting that in 2025, these have not even been addressed. Does no one at Bitwig actually use the arranger? Its a chore to use as is.

[apoclypse]

Ripple editing is another big issue for me.

The ripple editing is only partly implemented. For example, you can ripple duplicate and ripple cut, but ripple paste doesn't work. There is a shortcut for it but it does nothing.

I've reported it as a bug. Please do the same.

Yes. That's why I said its broken. I recall a certain banned user reporting this issue *checks calendar* five years ago. I reported this then as well. The fact that its still broken is a huge issue imo and ispart of why I keep point at these issues as being inexcusable in 2025. That's a very long time for a supposed bug to just linger with absolutely nothing from developers.

[machinesworking]

Bitwig is eleven years old. Ableton was 11 years old in 2012 and was missing a lot more stuff than Bitwig is now.

Max4Live was introduced a bit earlier than 2012. So I don't think you can compare them and truthfully say that.

[stamp]

Bitwig is eleven years old. Ableton was 11 years old in 2012 and was missing a lot more stuff than Bitwig is now.

Max4Live was introduced a bit earlier than 2012. So I don't think you can compare them and truthfully say that.

It was introduced 2009 iirc but it was not entirely developed by Ableton. The origin of Max, believe it or not, dates back to the 80' and only at the end of the 90' Cycling '74 acquired the rights to continue its development. So a big chunk of what makes Max for live doesn't come from Ableton but was allready in place.

[stamp]

And when it was introduced, adding a couple of Max devices to your tracks was the best way to make Live crash like there was no tomorrow..