Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[ollie.rollover]

Could we have an Exclusive Record Preference (similar to the exclusive solo preference) to stop me accidentally recording over existing parts!?

[monolithx]

There’s a difference between being niche by offering a unique design and unique features, and niche by being weirdly limited and only useful to certain people.

The first is obviously ideal and the second is silly. You can be useful and interesting at the same time.

It's not a failure, it's a "niche"

[_leras]

This is the Bitwig marketing bullshit. They advertise to do better than what Live does/did bad. But, now after 15 years, they are just not able to simply do what Live does. For example, regarding their never updated controllers system, I think they have their own "fundamental technological limitations". And Ableton has bought M4L, not developed it from scratch. Good luck! (And anyway, I don't care and I'm done with their modular hype, that ends in modular mess compositions). Finally, as I see that they don't improve anything once implemented and don't add enough customizations in general, for now, I won't renew anything (added the ridiculous % of sale).

That's your loss if you don't renew.

For me Bitwig does lots that Ableton doesn't do or doesn't do as well.

Bitwig has also been adding constantly. Yes they are behind Ableton in volume of plug ins, but their + versions have been pretty good and the modulation stuff is just way ahead. The drums update was also really cool if you ask me.

They also just made a whole bunch of lower level changes like audio management, so this bodes well for version 6.

[_leras]

I'm in the Live camp again for now, but I still really root for Bitwig to just plow everyone under with amazing features in the future.

I hope not... I prefer Bitwig to stay niche.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant there, I meant "amazing features", I didn't mean them becoming as big as Live, Cubase, FL, Logic etc.

I'm not against amazing features, but I also think all it really needs is a bit of a polish for workflow and Id be super happy. It already has the best workflow anyway.

But don't you think something like per track and project level remotes and modulations are amazing amazing features? And the way routing works?

I hope they get more and more success as I want them to keep improving their product!

[machinesworking]

I'm in the Live camp again for now, but I still really root for Bitwig to just plow everyone under with amazing features in the future.

I hope not... I prefer Bitwig to stay niche.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant there, I meant "amazing features", I didn't mean them becoming as big as Live, Cubase, FL, Logic etc.

I'm not against amazing features, but I also think all it really needs is a bit of a polish for workflow and Id be super happy. It already has the best workflow anyway.

But don't you think something like per track and project level remotes and modulations are amazing amazing features? And the way routing works?

I hope they get more and more success as I want them to keep improving their product!

My ideas on amazing features might not be for everyone.

One thing that was cool and sad at the same time that happened with Live was it got full Rewire capability right before Rewire was depreciated. You could run it as a rewire slave with Push controlling it etc.

People have mentioned that they don't care for major DAW features coming to Bitwig, i.e. things like Score tabs, or built in film scoring features usually get some negative feedback when mentioned. There is other ways though. Not all of us work in one DAW and it's still possible to use AUi/VSTi plugin support to get full integration between two DAWs. This would allow for people to use the kitchen sink DAWs like Cubase, Logic, DP, Reaper to access those types of features while still using Bitwig.

I don't think it's it's overstating it to say that ReWire was a HUGE portion of Ableton Lives success, at first at least half of the user base was using Live rewired into Logic, DP etc. I would also venture that the VSTI for FL Studio has kept people from completely jumping ship. I've wondered pretty much since the first time I used Bitwig why they didn't go that direction? I literally upgraded Reason from v2.5 to 11 when they added in the Reason Rack plugin.

For die hards I'm sure this is silly, but for the rest of us the death of Rewire and the only option being sync without audio, it just prevents one from thinking about doing it, not worth the hassle.

[stamp]

I'm in the Live camp again for now, but I still really root for Bitwig to just plow everyone under with amazing features in the future.

I hope not... I prefer Bitwig to stay niche.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant there, I meant "amazing features", I didn't mean them becoming as big as Live, Cubase, FL, Logic etc.

I'm not against amazing features, but I also think all it really needs is a bit of a polish for workflow and Id be super happy. It already has the best workflow anyway.

But don't you think something like per track and project level remotes and modulations are amazing amazing features? And the way routing works?

I hope they get more and more success as I want them to keep improving their product!

My ideas on amazing features might not be for everyone.

One thing that was cool and sad at the same time that happened with Live was it got full Rewire capability right before Rewire was depreciated. You could run it as a rewire slave with Push controlling it etc.

People have mentioned that they don't care for major DAW features coming to Bitwig, i.e. things like Score tabs, or built in film scoring features usually get some negative feedback when mentioned. There is other ways though. Not all of us work in one DAW and it's still possible to use AUi/VSTi plugin support to get full integration between two DAWs. This would allow for people to use the kitchen sink DAWs like Cubase, Logic, DP, Reaper to access those types of features while still using Bitwig.

I don't think it's it's overstating it to say that ReWire was a HUGE portion of Ableton Lives success, at first at least half of the user base was using Live rewired into Logic, DP etc. I would also venture that the VSTI for FL Studio has kept people from completely jumping ship. I've wondered pretty much since the first time I used Bitwig why they didn't go that direction? I literally upgraded Reason from v2.5 to 11 when they added in the Reason Rack plugin.

For die hards I'm sure this is silly, but for the rest of us the death of Rewire and the only option being sync without audio, it just prevents one from thinking about doing it, not worth the hassle.

Here I have to agree with you. Rewire was really cool!

[gulugulufish]

As a thought experiment. Lets say that 6.0 adds the top 10 requests on bitwish:

1. midi capture
2. theme support
3. midi comping
4. slicing in the sampler
5. grid containers
6. ARA2 support
7. visible gridlines behind clips
8. video support
9. alias/linked clips
10. piano roll new note length setting

Would the attitude towards bitwig being "niche" or "behind" other DAWs change? I do wonder sometimes what it would take to really start pulling in more of the mass market.

[JHernandez]

^Probably some of the largest "producers" on youtube choosing Bitwig as their main DAW. A couple professional producers with large swaths of people who want to be like them wouldn't hurt either.

People want to use what their music heroes are using, and or what most people are using, in general.

I'm guilty.

[pdxindy]

As a thought experiment. Lets say that 6.0 adds the top 10 requests on bitwish:

1-10

Would the attitude towards bitwig being "niche" or "behind" other DAWs change? I do wonder sometimes what it would take to really start pulling in more of the mass market.

I'd say half of those top 10 don't move the needle at all. I'd also say that improving automation would do more than 8 of the 10.

I don't see Bitwig as behind other DAW's. That presumes one linear path that everyone is on and heading to the same destination.

I consider it niche because Bitwig has a smaller userbase. My impression is that Bitwig has continued to slowly grow. I more frequently see Bitwig in the background of plugin reviews. Bitwig is also mentioned more often in marketing for hardware integration of controllers, etc.

[machinesworking]

^Probably some of the largest "producers" on youtube choosing Bitwig as their main DAW. A couple professional producers with large swaths of people who want to be like them wouldn't hurt either.

People want to use what their music heroes are using, and or what most people are using, in general.

I'm guilty.

Yeah some of us are the opposite. I was all about looking into Bitwig as soon as MPE support just wasn't happening in Live, and I sort of hate that as it stands working in Live is easier for my purposes (to create content for Push 3 standalone), so I'm stuck using the popular DAW and I just don't particularly care for that. Just the fact that the key commands for Live are three finger monstrosities pisses me off when I think about how smart they are in Bitwig. Plus in general the GUI in Live is plagued with tiny elements that make it annoying to use compared to Bitwigs. People knock the single theme for Bitwig but it forces continuity in the GUI since there isn't much you can do to f*ck it up. What really pisses me off though is the long standing weird buggy BS like the command for opening an instrument plugin in Live does not work unless you've already selected and opened the plugin once...

IMO if they wanted more customers the best way would be through adding in some content besides loops. Device panels for control surfaces have to be added in by your own hand, generic configurations for 3rd party plugins makes sense. Even if they kept up a site with all of the user made ones that would be a bonus to new users. Adding in free Grid learning videos and more free Grid devices is another way. Show clearly that you with DAWProject can use your old DAW along with Bitwig if you like, and like I mentioned add in a VSTi plugin version of Bitwig to allow it to work in Reaper, DP, Logic, Cubase etc.

There's a conceit to all developers where they don't see customer laziness as something to accommodate. It's not as if an official site hosting these things called Ensembles didn't spark thousands of contributions from Reaktor users? Yet Ableton and Bitwig don't seem to think this is a way to promote M4L or the Grid..

[Greenstorm33]

I frequently wish I could just smoosh Live and Bitwig together. I don't know why Ableton can't throw their wads of cash in a direction that results in Live having editable keybindings.

[_leras]

What does aliased clips mean? When a clip is dragged/extended it just loops which is almost like a ghost/alias?

A beefed up sampler would be great. It doesn't need to live in the FX bar only - but that's true for all devices imo. Sometimes useful, but often too small.

Better gridlines, sure yes, no brainer.

Midi capture sure, but this is good, even if integrated would be better
https://www.birdsthings.com/midi-cap

Ara, video, themes.. I don't really care too much tbh

Now, if you let me add groups to the output channels from the drum machine and multi channel vsts, I'd be super happy. I'd love to group my high hats and have it's own local FX sends, and Then go out to the drum machine main output. My BD and SD treatments are different and need their own groups etc etc.

I'd also quite like to see multi layer samples in am updated sampler, so multiple sounds could be edited and each have their own envelope, but all be editable right there in one place.

[_leras]

^Probably some of the largest "producers" on youtube choosing Bitwig as their main DAW. A couple professional producers with large swaths of people who want to be like them wouldn't hurt either.

People want to use what their music heroes are using, and or what most people are using, in general.

I'm guilty.

You mean Dash Glitch isn't your musical hero?

The Ableton user base is huge and peoples awareness of it is pretty widespread. That and Fruity Loops are basically the defacto starting DAWs. People have probably bought Ableton before they even find out about Bitwig.

I think the Bitwig message is getting out there slowly, but for now it seems to be the highly strung, push against the mainstream, crowd - which is a shame as it's actually the DAW with the very best workflow in my opinion.

An artist has to really become pretty well known for the DAW they use to become talked about. And their are not too many artists of the profile of Skrillex of deadmau5 who are prolific Ableton users.

I'm not sure I could even tell you which DAW older groups like say Orbital or Chemical Brothers use.

For the earlier question of who is Bitwig target audience, I think that is perhaps a bit Berlin centric, with a focus on looped electronic music.

I don't exactly know how they can market better, but more, non electronic uses could be good in their marketing and demo videos.

[icaria36]

What does aliased clips mean?

See Alias clips / Linked clips:

Alias clips, also known as linked clips, enable convenient editing of clips that repeat throughout a project. Edit any one clip and the changes are automatically applied to all the other linked clips, also known as instances. It’s easy to see how this would extremely useful when producing electronic music genres.

(I guess that top ten comes from the Bitwish community wishlist.)

[icaria36]

About Bitwig's target audience, maybe this recent interview with Fredrik Larsson has been quoted somewhere before but just in case:

It's not super easy to pinpoint who the typical user is because we might have an idea, but every time we go to a trade show and talk to the customers, or we look at the inbox, or we, you know, interact with the customers, we realize that there is such variety. That being said, it's probably a person who likes to do sound design and is looking for a tool that is catering towards the creative side of music production. It's not so much maybe the linear music-making person who sits by a piano, composes a song, and records a song, mixes it, and done. It's more an iterative process where you have an idea, create something in Bitwig Studio to that idea, and then you discover something along the way that takes you to maybe a different place altogether, if that makes any sense. And a way to define creativity, I think. And there's also people who are not making music at all, people who are making sound design for games or for movies, people who are, well, we actually have people who are recording bands as well. Yeah, it's kind of hard to say. I think what we've seen is that many of our customers already have another DAW. They maybe have Pro Tools or Cubase or Logic, more linear DAW, but they want to try something that is totally different, and they come to us.