Limited Insert Slots

[dePUNDIT]

I'm currently working on a session and I'm running into the problem of limited inserts. When I try to add a new Plugin to a track, I get a notification saying "Can't insert that type of filter here" .
The limit seems to be 14 plugins. After that, I can't add anything to the track anymore.
I am using quite a few buses and have to route this particular track to these buses using the Aux Send which are also plugins.
Knowing that to route tracks, you have to use insert space, why should there be an artificial limit to the number of inserts available?

Waveform Pro 13.5.8 on Windows 11

[pough]

Max plugins per track seems to be 16, which usually includes the vol/pan and the meter. You can remove those to get two more Sends in, but yeah I'm surprised that there is a limit. Also that the resulting message seems unrelated.

[dePUNDIT]

This is just crazy. Do the Tracktion Devs even visit these forums? I am yet to find a message from one of the Devs here. Sending them an email is an exercise in futility except it concerns making payment. If it's not about an issue with making payments, you'll get no response.
There's just a lot of things with Tracktion Waveform that I'm finding out that just don't make any sense to me.
Can any of the Devs tell us why there has to be a limit on the plugins on a track?

[operandx]

I suspect they never thought anyone would want to use that many plugins or 'filters', as they were called in Tracktion and subsequently Waveform, bit confusing I know. I've never needed so many in many years of using Waveform. However, there is a way out of your problem, use a Rack to put some of the plugins in and you can get round the limitation.

[talby]

Do the Tracktion Devs even visit these forums?

No, they usually don't. This is basically a user to user help forum. Sorry for the bad news if you understood it different. Well, we all understood it different when we started out here.

[dePUNDIT]

No, they usually don't. This is basically a user to user help forum. Sorry for the bad news if you understood it different. Well, we all understood it different when we started out here.

Is there an official user forum where one could reach out to the Devs?

[talby]

Is there an official user forum where one could reach out to the Devs?

Unfortunately not. Currently the best way to reach out to them seems to follow the answer which their chat bot gives if you ask it "How to contact you?". You find the chat bot at the very bottom left of this page: https://www.tracktion.com/support
Good luck!

[pekbro]

Arent you supposed to use the racks to cut down on inserts?

[dePUNDIT]

Arent you supposed to use the racks to cut down on inserts?

I did use a rack at the end of the day but that's actually a workaround as it adds at least 4 extra mouse clicks to my workflow before I can get to any Plugin I'm trying to edit.

[pough]

This may be pedantic, but a limitation is not a bug. The same thing is present in WF12 and WF9 - two versions I still have installed. I think it would be good if...

1. TSC changed the error message (eg "Maximum 16 plugin per track limit reached")
2. TSC mentioned the limit in the manual (I couldn't find it, anyways)
3. TSC removed or increased the limit

Considering how averse TSC was to adding a mixer because software shouldn't be hampered by hardware limitations...

[dePUNDIT]

This may be pedantic, but a limitation is not a bug. The same thing is present in WF12 and WF9 - two versions I still have installed. I think it would be good if...

1. TSC changed the error message (eg "Maximum 16 plugin per track limit reached")
2. TSC mentioned the limit in the manual (I couldn't find it, anyways)
3. TSC removed or increased the limit

Considering how averse TSC was to adding a mixer because software shouldn't be hampered by hardware limitations...

In my defence, this felt like a bug when I was actively experiencing it. I looked everywhere for answers before I decided to create a post. Google and every other source I could find said Waveform has no limit on per track plugins and yet, mine had a limit on it.

[pough]

In my defence, this felt like a bug when I was actively experiencing it.

That's totally understandable. I just think that the subject line could be changed for better accuracy. Editing your first post also allows you to change the subject. You don't need to; it's just a suggestion.

I have to say, I've been using this since version one and I never bumped up against the 16-plugin limit. I'm kind of impressed. Also, since WF allows 32 send channels it would at least seem more consistent to allow 32 plugins on a track.

Should we have a bet on how long it takes for a Reaper user to show up and tell us about how Reaper has unlimited insert plugins per track?

I looked everywhere for answers before I decided to create a post. Google and every other source I could find said Waveform has no limit on per track plugins and yet, mine had a limit on it.

I'm guessing information on WF's lack of limits is in comparison to other free editions where they have limits on things like the number of tracks and/or the number of plugins total that can be added to a song. Regardless, there is a limit and I think that they should be made clear.

Does anyone know how to use Github well enough to contribute to the manual? I feel like it's a bit confused regarding topics on "the Mixer". What used to be called "the Mixer" is no longer called that since WF now has a "proper" mixer.

https://github.com/Tracktion/waveform_m ... User-Guide

[dePUNDIT]

I have to say, I've been using this since version one and I never bumped up against the 16-plugin limit. I'm kind of impressed. Also, since WF allows 32 send channels it would at least seem more consistent to allow 32 plugins on a track.

Now that just makes perfect sense. WF has given us 32 send channels without intending for us to actually use them. The inserts should be at least up to 40 slots keeping in mind that before any track can be sent to an aux/send track, it has to first be processed. I could've run into this problem earlier but for the fact that I use Channel Strips. If I was just using individual plugins, I probably wouldn't have gotten to the send part before running out of Plugin inserts.

Should we have a bet on how long it takes for a Reaper user to show up and tell us about how Reaper has unlimited insert plugins per track?

Most times when REAPER users say things like this, it's not out of pride but just stating an honest fact. Tracktion was released before REAPER if my memory serves. I first encountered Tracktion at either V1 or V2. At that time, I hadn't yet heard anything about REAPER. Today REAPER boasts features I'm sure Tracktion will still lack in 10 years time taking into account the attitude of the Devs and support team. Tracktion was one of the 1st DAWs to implement ARA along side Studioone 2 or 3 and Cakewalk Sonar X2 if I'm not mistaken. Today, all other DAWs on this list have ARA2 and Waveform is still without it. Even ProTools has ARA2 now. Not insert limit in REAPER. Waveform consumes about 10 times the CPU usage of REAPER. I've seen the REAPER Devs fix problems hours after they're reported and Tracktion Devs can't even respond to a mail.

Does anyone know how to use Github well enough to contribute to the manual? I feel like it's a bit confused regarding topics on "the Mixer". What used to be called "the Mixer" is no longer called that since WF now has a "proper" mixer.

The user manual is seriously outdated. Today I tried to find information on how to use the envelope follower to do a basic knob control link to the amplitude of another tracks output and found out very quickly that there's nothing on Modifiers in the user manual. That thing is not even a user manual anymore. More than half the features that have been added to Waveform in about the past 10 years or so are still not in the user manual.

I am honestly sort of beating myself for paying for Waveform instead of REAPER. There's a lot I could do in REAPER that I now realise I can't do in Waveform probable for the next decade. Waveform could be a solid contender to be a solid daw in the music industry both for home studios and pro studios but the Devs have decided to do the very bare minimum in advancing the DAW.
The sorry excuse I hear most times is that it's a small team and to me, honestly speaking, that's not an excuse at all. REAPER is basically developed by one man and another man does the theme, that's it. Yet it has features that make REAPER sound like a fairytale DAW when users start to praise it.

[pough]

WF has given us 32 send channels without intending for us to actually use them.

I can't really agree with this. Using more than a small number of sends from a single track probably puts you pretty firmly into edge case territory. I'm not saying you wouldn't do it, just that you're doing something very few other people would want or need to do. Do I think it would be good for TSC to increase the number of plugins per track? Sure. Do I think that not increasing it would be crippling for most use cases? No.

Most times when REAPER users say things like this, it's not out of pride but just stating an honest fact.

Two things can be true at the same time. How do you know that someone is a Reaper user? They tell you. I certainly won't argue it's not a powerful DAW. I own a copy. But I find Waveform MUCH more enjoyable. My needs are few. It's fine if other people have needs that only Reaper fills. It's also fine if people advocate for Waveform to improve.

That thing is not even a user manual anymore.

No. A manual is something that TSC have at some points in time fought against. They don't like having to add features to the software AND a manual.

I'm ambivalent. I hate manuals, but sometimes they're necessary. The writing of a worthwhile manual is a special talent that is rare. So many of them only tell you things that you can find only if you already know it. I've been trying to read one recently that seems to have been written by the marketing department and although I now know so many ways ThingX will make my life easier, I still have no idea what it actually is.

The sorry excuse I hear most times is that it's a small team and to me, honestly speaking, that's not an excuse at all.

I think that's a part of it. The bigger part is that Reaper is still developed by a super-nerd with a passion project. Tracktion was started by one, but he left. If the main Reaper dev leaves and the project is taken over by others, it might not fare so well. A well-managed project, like a worthwhile manual, is a rare and special thing.

[Maarid]

I've seen the REAPER Devs fix problems hours after they're reported and Tracktion Devs can't even respond to a mail.

I'm not interfering in your dialogue in any way, just let me act as an arbitration clarification.
It is difficult to judge the reaction of the developers directly based on the general situation. I dare say that the problem lies in the miniaturization of the fanbase, there are very few of us, the most active users. Everyone has their own difficulties in using it, and everyone has their own understanding/misunderstanding of the whole concept.
Using the example of the sad events of version 12, we can safely say that when the majority began to talk about specific problems, they were solved literally before our eyes, within a week. And if we judge the specific approach to solving most of the oddities, we can just as safely say that most of the oddities and/or oddities come from the fact that everything is built on the JUCE framework, the legs grow from there.
But, figuratively speaking, they always monitor the overall temperature on the forum, rest assured, it's just that the problem can only bother you personally, then you're just one of us, don't worry