Bashing Mackie

[FENder6]

After reading more than a few negative posts about the "evil empire" that calls itself Mackie, I just thought I'd chime in with a little story that unfolded about a year or two ago.

My tough old Nissan truck finally died on me after years of abuse and no complaining - and with it went my Mackie bumper sticker that i had gotten when i purchased my 1402-VLZ Pro mixer. When i got a new vehicle i knew it would never be complete until the center of the back bumper was gleaming with Mackie pride. The problem was that the old sticker didn't quite make it off in one piece, so i shot off an e-mail to Mackie explaining my dilemma (humorously, of course). I received a very friendly reply the next day thanking me for my support and asking for my address. A week later a package came in the mail with 10 (!) bumper stickers and various goodies (including some killer doorknob "In Session" hangers). I was very surprised and more than pleased that they had gone out of their way for me, and i even received another e-mail from them double-checking to see if everything had arrived. My back bumper isn't so lonely anymore, and all of my guitar cases have new adornments.

The point of this story isn't to kiss Mackie's ass - just to let everyone in on something very positive that happened to me relating to them. And - my 1402 VLZ is still going strong after six years of torrential use, and i wouldn't trade it for the world! When i read that Mackie would be distributing Tracktion I was elated. I couldn't think of a finer company to do it.

On another note - i keep reading in the forum about final rendering problems. I never render my final mixes via mouse click anymore. I run my tracks back out into the 1402 (which gives me more submix options) then back into whatever audio prog (usually Tracktion) i'm using to record the final track. I know this breaks the digital chain, but my final mix is *exactly* what i hear. No ifs, ands, or buts. Rendering never gave me that (not only in Tracktion, but any prog i used). Does anyone else do this?

- Billy

[djsubject]

yes i do it aswell becouse as u say u get wot u here allthough the export is good in T & i use it on un-finished projects that the artist wants to take with them

[rpc9943]

what i was bashing before was their software handlings before. Hopefully theyll do well w/ T2

RoNC

[djsubject]

what i was bashing before was their software handlings before. Hopefully theyll do well w/ T2

RoNC

guilty feeling ron?


i think mackie r big enuff to ignore any of us plums that try givin them a hard time, if u ever use any mackie hardware u will soon understand why (its coz thay dont fuk about with there hardware) & all the pros no it

[chimmy]

Hey Billy & DJ,
Just to make sure I understand this. If I record in 26bit 96k, then output the analog from the pc back through my outboard gear (for master channel processing), input it back into my multitrack software and record that input in 16bit 44.1k, (assuming the outboard gear is quality)is the resulting wave better than rendering to 16bit/44k with dithering? (WHEW that was a long sentence!)

Or...Is the resulting wav comparable in quality to rendering and the main benefit what you mentioned above?

I ask because I am able to do things when monitoring through my outboard gear to get exactly the sound I want, then I struggle unsuccessfully to duplicate that sound with plug-ins. In fact I have 8 analog ins and outs on my interface so If I'm understanding this right I could really improve my mixes (in my mind anyway )

Thanks for any insight you can give me,
chimmy

edit: Didn't mean to hijack the thread Billy. You mentioned this method so I couldn't help my unending quest for knowledge.

[Lunch Money]

Fender-- thanks for relating that story. When I first heard people making claims about the "evil empire", I asked for evidence and was given none. Seems like there's a lot of hear-say and speculation on subjects about which people know very little. Even by showing a company that had been "screwed" (which nobody has), they fail to understand that there are probably mitigating circumstances that they're simply unaware of.

From the little contact I've had with Mackie, along with the type of marketing and literature I see on their website, I have never believe that they are 'evil', but merely that they're a business. To be honest, I was just happy that Jules found some world-wide distribution, and when I researched Mackie a bit more, I wasn't disappointed.

Greg

[djsubject]

Hey Billy & DJ,
Just to make sure I understand this. If I record in 26bit 96k, then output the analog from the pc back through my outboard gear (for master channel processing), input it back into my multitrack software and record that input in 16bit 44.1k, (assuming the outboard gear is quality)is the resulting wave better than rendering to 16bit/44k with dithering? (WHEW that was a long sentence!)

Or...Is the resulting wav comparable in quality to rendering and the main benefit what you mentioned above?

I ask because I am able to do things when monitoring through my outboard gear to get exactly the sound I want, then I struggle unsuccessfully to duplicate that sound with plug-ins. In fact I have 8 analog ins and outs on my interface so If I'm understanding this right I could really improve my mixes (in my mind anyway )

Thanks for any insight you can give me,
chimmy

edit: Didn't mean to hijack the thread Billy. You mentioned this method so I couldn't help my unending quest for knowledge.

YES (& that was a long sentence)

+ u can get even more head room

[IIRs]

If I record in 26bit 96k, then output the analog from the pc back through my outboard gear (for master channel processing), input it back into my multitrack software and record that input in 16bit 44.1k, (assuming the outboard gear is quality)is the resulting wave better than rendering to 16bit/44k with dithering? (WHEW that was a long sentence!)

If it sounds better, it is better!

However, I would urge you to record the final mix at 24 bit with a little headroom, to be normalised & dithered in the DAW hbefore burning to CD.

If you record 16 bit files you won't be able to adjust the level of them later without potentially audible degradation. This means you have to be very careful with your record levels, and you will have no way to match percieved volumes of adjacent tracks in a cd playlist..

[IIRs]

Back to the topic: my monitor chain is 100% Mackie (another little 1402 VLZ & a pair of HR626's) and I'm very happy with it.. my experience of Mackie so far has been positive.

[chimmy]

Thanks Plat,
I didn't know that,
Your tips are always phat,
You one rightious cat! (as in "hip dude" dig?)

chimmy

[FENder6]

Chimmy,

Plat's advice is good - record your final mix coming back in at 24 bit for the headroom.

I have 8 ins and outs on my interface also which allows me to submix and add any hardware efx before going back in, but the biggest advantage to this is what you hear is what you get. I got tired of working days on mixes just to render them in the DAW and they weren't quite there - close, but no bananas. This isn't just Tracktion - it's every audio prog I've ever worked with.

Experiment some and see what works best for you. Compare final tracks. Many will tell you not to break the digital chain, but i love the added analog warmth. Find out what works best for you and your set-up.

- Billy

[chimmy]

Thanks Billy

[Isjtar]

i thought realtime audio playback in sequencer apps is lower quality then when rendering. i noticed this least in sx, bit more in T.
a notorious example of this was FL3, horrible reatime playback...

could very well be subjective mind you, have no clue of programming specifics.

[audiobot202]

Reading all of this has made me curious about actually recording straight out of my soundcard and onto analog tape in order to add different dynamics and warmth and then record back into the PC...

Any tips?

[japut_99]

... soundcard and onto analog tape in order to add different dynamics and warmth and then record back into the PC...

Any tips?

+3db