Bitwig 6

[ere2learn]

But since the functionality is already there wouldn't it be relatively trivial for Bitwig developers to provide a way to do it without having to display the devices and the extra track in the gui?

Dunno, I'm of the other school of thought, why do devs need to do anything when the function is there.

Just set up a nice template, you arm 2 channels, hit record, you've recorded in scale

[muzicxs]

Dunno, I'm of the other school of thought, why do devs need to do anything when the function is there.

Just set up a nice template, you arm 2 channels, hit record, you've recorded in scale

I'm with you. Especially since it's trivial to setup, and as a bonus, you keep the originally recorded performance.

[tumface]

So the F should become F#.

No, the B would become F#. Because in C major, B is the 7th scale degree. And in G major, the 7th degree on the scale is F#. So, the B key on the keyboard becomes F#.

How to do this? It's annoyingly easy. You transpose the entire keyboard up by 7 semitones, shifting the C onto the G. That's it. Now the white keys are all the correct scale degrees again, but in G major instead of C major. (This is how the organ keyboard was originally designed to work, in a single key.)

BitwigStudioApp_w1dj9KmP34.png

And the system that Ableton came up with, and that Bitwig copied, is incompatible with this. I have no idea why they decided to go with the design that they did, which is based on filtering notes at their absolute keyboard position instead of using functional scale degrees. Whatever, I don't care, just let me turn it off and ignore it.

[muzicxs]

No, the B would become F#. Because in C major, B is the 7th scale degree. And in G major, the 7th degree on the scale is F#. So, the B key on the keyboard becomes F#.

Ah, you are correct. I was thinking in notes, rather than in scale degrees.

I have no idea why they decided to go with the design that they did, which is based on filtering notes at their absolute keyboard position instead of using functional scale degrees.

I think they fixed that, but I can't check for the next few days. The harmony device was utterly useless for the exact same reason, which they also fixed with Bitwig 6.

[pdxindy]

So you are saying that it's best for a grid controller to be set into chromatic mode to use the new key and scale functionality?

So all the user has to do is learn the key and scale on that controller to play the same thing that BW is then mapping to and waste the space of having pads that are not in the scale. So there is no use at all for the new scale and key stuff in BW when you are playing from a controller?

As @tumface says, if BW had an option to take a C major input and map that to the key and scale I guess it would then make the new BW stuff actually useful, otherwise I don't really see the point of it apart from for the internal devices and for people that like randomly entering or playing notes. Just my opinion though.

I was only talking about Grid controllers vs a regular keyboard (and not referring to the new Bitwig functionality at all). It was in the context of it being stated that it is hard for people to learn scales on a regular keyboard.

I wouldn't want my grid controller to be anything but chromatic, nor would I want my live playing to be constrained to a key and scale. I can do that much more fluidly myself and still be free to step outside when I want.

IMO, the new key/scale functionality is not for live playing. It's useful for the piano roll. It's useful for importing a midi clip and conforming it without having to manually edit it. It's also useful to constrain the output of say the Arpeggiator to user set key/scale. None of that is about random notes.

[tumface]

I think they fixed that, but I can't check for the next few days. The harmony device was utterly useless for the exact same reason, which they also fixed with Bitwig 6.

I tried to find a way to make the Bitwig 6 global scale cause the keyboard's white keys to play the scale degrees of the current key, using combinations of Key Filter+ and Transpose and Transpose Map, but was unable to do it. Really goofy.

[pdxindy]

The harmony device was utterly useless for the exact same reason, which they also fixed with Bitwig 6.

Did they fix the Harmony device in V6? I haven't even thought about checking it.

[tumface]

I wouldn't want my grid controller to be anything but chromatic, nor would I want my live playing to be constrained to a key and scale. I can do that much more fluidly myself and still be free to step outside when I want.

IMO, the new key/scale functionality is not for live playing. It's useful for the piano roll. It's useful for importing a midi clip and conforming it without having to manually edit it. It's also useful to constrain the output of say the Arpeggiator to user set key/scale. None of that is about random notes.

Again, when you replied and quoted me, I was specifically replying to someone talking about Bitwig 6's scale system saving them from having to learn to play in all 12 keys. And I was saying that it doesn't. And, it doesn't. So, saying that you like the way Bitwig's global scale system lets you continue playing on the keyboard the same way as before is the opposite of the point of that conversation.

[tumface]

Did they fix the Harmony device in V6? I haven't even thought about checking it.

BitwigStudioApp_yaQisjCfIn.png

These devices remain unchanged. Maybe they'll update them in the future.

[BobDog]

So you are saying that it's best for a grid controller to be set into chromatic mode to use the new key and scale functionality?

So all the user has to do is learn the key and scale on that controller to play the same thing that BW is then mapping to and waste the space of having pads that are not in the scale. So there is no use at all for the new scale and key stuff in BW when you are playing from a controller?

As @tumface says, if BW had an option to take a C major input and map that to the key and scale I guess it would then make the new BW stuff actually useful, otherwise I don't really see the point of it apart from for the internal devices and for people that like randomly entering or playing notes. Just my opinion though.

I was only talking about Grid controllers vs a regular keyboard (and not referring to the new Bitwig functionality at all). It was in the context of it being stated that it is hard for people to learn scales on a regular keyboard.

I wouldn't want my grid controller to be anything but chromatic, nor would I want my live playing to be constrained to a key and scale. I can do that much more fluidly myself and still be free to step outside when I want.

IMO, the new key/scale functionality is not for live playing. It's useful for the piano roll. It's useful for importing a midi clip and conforming it without having to manually edit it. It's also useful to constrain the output of say the Arpeggiator to user set key/scale. None of that is about random notes.

I know you don't want it to be different but some others may. That is why an option somewhere would be useful for them, and then the key/scale functionality could also be used to live playing as well as from the piano roll/devices.

I don't want the key/scale stuff at all, I would rather they had spent the considerable effort they put into implementing the key/scale stuff on something totally different.

I can understand though that some other people will want to use it, as well as understanding why it would also be useful for some other people for live playing.

[pdxindy]

So, saying that you like the way Bitwig's global scale system lets you continue playing on the keyboard the same way as before is the opposite of the point of that conversation.

I didn't say anything about liking Bitwig's global scale system.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

[muzicxs]

The harmony device was utterly useless for the exact same reason, which they also fixed with Bitwig 6.

Did they fix the Harmony device in V6? I haven't even thought about checking it.

They did not, I confused it with the multi-note device.

[aMUSEd]

I would love it if they would add the ability to enter cc numbers manually instead of only being able to learn devices

[muzicxs]

I tried to find a way to make the Bitwig 6 global scale cause the keyboard's white keys to play the scale degrees of the current key, using combinations of Key Filter+ and Transpose and Transpose Map, but was unable to do it. Really goofy.

The Note Transpose device's Semitone Shift parameter is swapped out for a Step Shift parameter when Use Global Key is enabled.

Above is from the release notes. You should be able to use the Note Transpose device with "Use Global Key" enabled to get what you want.

[tumface]

I didn't say anything about liking Bitwig's global scale system.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I never said you liked Bitwig's global scale system. I said you liked the way Bitwig's global scale system lets you continue playing on the keyboard the same way as before, which you said directly in this post:

What I think most people actually want is to press C on their keyboard and get the tonic note of the key they're in.

I certainly don't. When I play a C on my keyboard, I want to hear a C. Years of keyboard muscle memory and ear memory would be lost with what your describing.

And of course, that has always been easy to do with note transpose if someone wants it.

To me, the purpose of the scale system is not about playing on the keyboard. It is mainly a filtering system for manual note input in the piano roll and to constrain automated note generation like arpeggiators and so on.