How do you go about song making with Tracktion?

[flanneljammies]

I want to like Tracktion but the lack of mixer is very limiting.

Or very freeing, depending on how you look at it...

[Beardedone]

Beardedone wrote:
I want to like Tracktion but the lack of mixer is very limiting.

Or very freeing, depending on how you look at it...

How so?

[rpc9943]

I simply dont mix in tracktion. Heh.

RonC

[IIRs]

Beardedone wrote:
I want to like Tracktion but the lack of mixer is very limiting.

Or very freeing, depending on how you look at it...

How so?

What exactly does a software mixer allow you to achieve, that T's arrange page does not?

A hardware mixer is another matter: it's tactile, can have multiple controls manipulated at once, it provides a large display of current volumes via fader positions etc..

Software mixers do the opposite: they hide all these important features away in a seperate page, which has to be opened and manipulated before any useful work is done, and hidden away when you want to move some parts around instead.

Tracktions interface actually fulfils MORE of the functions of a hardware mixer than a software mixer does, simply by making the mixing options always available, no matter what else you happen to be doing at the time.

[Lunch Money]

I can't totally dismiss a mixer from some people's way of working... but I personally don't need or use it. That's just me, though.

Greg

[chardin]

The Beta Monkey loops I have are great. Using them in Tracktion is almost too easy.

I do both. I try my best to have my loops pre-selected because Tracktion doesn't have acid support yet, and therefore some of the loops are a half bpm slower or faster than others. However, a bit of shuffling isn't that difficult.

I would love to hear more about how you "shuffle" the loops. I have found some nice fills that don't quite line up with the other loops -- too short leaving pregnant pauses. The fill is from the same folder as the other loops. Streching the fill with the triangles on the left or right makes the drummer sound like he's under water.

I really appreciate all the help on this forum.

[Lunch Money]

I would love to hear more about how you "shuffle" the loops. I have found some nice fills that don't quite line up with the other loops -- too short leaving pregnant pauses.

So far, it's gone a few different ways. First, the old way of doing it:

- If the replacement loop was a bit too long, shrinking it didn't hurt audio quality, so I either shrunk to fit, or cross-faded if it sounded OK.

- If the replacement loop was a bit too short, I tried my best to make it a bit too short at the beginning AND at the end. Normally this worked. If not, I admit that sometimes I went with a loop that wasn't exactly the one I wanted, for the sake of convenience.

- In one project, I only had 2 guitars, bass, and the drum loops. I simply moved the guitar and bass clips to line up with the drum loop, using the peak of beat 1 as my marker. Ie. I made it so that the guitar part's peak 1 came in pretty much at the same time as the drum; same with the bass. Then I played back and if it sounded OK (which it did) I left it. If it would've sounded "off", I would have adjusted with nudging as needed.

--------

HOWEVER:

My new way of doing it is simpler, less fussy, and shorter to explain:

- Use a beatslicer (I use eXT's native beatslicer) to cut up the loop, then set it to the needed tempo, then re-render the loop so that it's now the right length. Then I just use it as an audio loop, same as I would've straight from the Beta Monkey CD.

---------

EPILOGUE:

When using loops that aren't perfect in length, I've learned to plan out my song ahead of time, which is why my drum loops are almost always "in place" right from the beginning.

Greg

[Improv]

Software mixers do the opposite: they hide all these important features away in a seperate page, which has to be opened and manipulated before any useful work is done, and hidden away when you want to move some parts around instead.

Tracktions interface actually fulfils MORE of the functions of a hardware mixer than a software mixer does, simply by making the mixing options always available, no matter what else you happen to be doing at the time.

I'm using dual screen monitors with Cubase SX 2, the
second monitor has the mixer sitting open all the time. That's about as available as you can get!

Having said that, I also use T1, and it doesn't bother me to not have an SX type software mixer always on screen. Guess I adapt easily!

[Id Lab]

I came to T from Cubasis, Logic and Sonar, and I used the mixers as little as possible in the other software. It seemed like bad design. Tracktion is the first music software I've used that has a logical interface.

Anyway, song recording: turn off the snap, set the time display to minutes/seconds, and use it like a four-track tape recorder. Except with more tracks. Shuffle bits around, apply effects, go by ear.

[Dave Wiz]

I want to like Tracktion but the lack of mixer is very limiting.

Or very freeing, depending on how you look at it...

Must agree with you there. I tend to make my stuff and then automate the levels etc. I don't know if this is the correct way to do it but the end results staand up ok.
Sometimes less is more

[haydxn]

i love a nice big analogue mixer. i hate those stupid early digital mixers with about 10 buttons to do everything with (you REALLY need to know how they work to do anything on them)

however, i really can't see the point in having a picture of one on my screen when i'm making music. the only reason i'd want a load of faders all together would be so that i could easily grab any of them and know what track i was adjusting- with my HANDS.

however, on a screen i can only grab one at a time with the mouse, making it not even slightly worthwhile to me. Tracktion's way of doing things is exactly what i want, and never would have even realised! if i want to change the level of a track, i will. i'll just go to the track's level control. i don't need them all in a row with massive detailed graphics to know where they are. having meters next to them is handy, but you do get meters in T, so it's not like you're missing anything.

the big track meters in T2 look promising tho, for sure. assuming that they aren't just for input levels but the track levels also, surely that's enough to shut those no-mixer-naysayers up?

[bewing77]

What I generally do is I start with the part of the song that has everything in it: the climax so to speak. I often begin with getting the bass right for this, then add some pretty generic drums. After this I can experiment with melody, pads, backings etc. If I am using some vocals I can start workin on theese to. After getting this just right for about 16 bars I start arranging the song, breaking this climax down into different parts. With the basic arrangement done I can start to make fills, bridges, extra melody loops etc and work on the final version of the drums. Then comes a long time of fiddling, changing stuff, retakes and such until everything is perfect. Now what remains is just recording everything to audio and mixing it.

Getting a basic idea down is a very quick process, a few hours tops. But to finish off a track would generally take me about 2-3 weeks full time work and that is if I don't decide to go back and change to much or run into any major creative blocks.

Of course this isn't a mathematic formula. It's just the way I tend to work most of the time. Experiment and find what works best for you.

[klagga]

I'm using dual screen monitors with Cubase SX 2, the
second monitor has the mixer sitting open all the time. That's about as available as you can get!

Having said that, I also use T1, and it doesn't bother me to not have an SX type software mixer always on screen. Guess I adapt easily!

Exactly, I´ve considered buying two monitors to be able to use Cubase SX efficiently. But since I´ve moved to Tracktion, I don´t feel that two monitors are that necessary!

[soulata]

1) I record the keys, first the chords, then the melody (click!)
2) jam the bassline
3) decide on a tempo
4) insert loops or program the beat (worse)

Usually I'd do it again from the rhythm track up.

k