TAL releases TAL-EQ

[jamcat]

Maybe Patrick got tired of losing money to piracy with a simple serial that was easy to keygen. I don't blame him at all.

I've always found this attitude that developers have to either expose their product to easy piracy or you won't buy them is both shitty and suspect.

[slackhead]

The D16 plugins also require it, but you can save the activation response for reuse on the same hardware, AFAIK.

Unfortunately D16 downloaded activation response files only last a few days before becoming invalid.

[tumface]

Maybe Patrick got tired of losing money to piracy with a simple serial that was easy to keygen. I don't blame him at all.

You can make a serial key system that's mathematically impervious to keygens using public+private signing. REAPER and FabFilter both do this, for example. I've implemented it in my own software products in the past. It won't save you from cracks (someone modifying the .exe) but it makes keygens impossible. Online activation also won't save you from cracks, but it does save people sharing their keys with friends who might have otherwise bought the product, which is a real problem, but IMO is not worth the hit to product quality. Just my opinion. Devs can do whatever they want, of course.

Unfortunately D16 downloaded activation response files only last a few days before becoming invalid.

Checked by your own computer's local clock As long as you don't change the hardware, the finalized activation data is still good forever, too. Of course, I'd prefer if they just had a normal offline serial system, but at least this one is livable. It's one of the reasons I own multiple D16 plugins.

[masterhiggins]

I feel so conflicted with this one. On one hand I want to support TAL, but on the other hand I don't want to incentivize weird-ass decisions like this one.

What a nonsense. Not everything is about you.

There are people who are switching to Linux and are very happy to have a high quality native EQ options now. As one of them, I can assure you that his decision to make an EQ is very, very welcome here and I bought it the moment it was out.

There are new people coming into audio world, every single day and they do not have any EQs yet.

And so on, and so on.

So if it's not for you, just don't buy it and stop making it about you.

That’s fine, man. Just saying. If no one has bothered to make a good eq for Linux until today…that’s even weirder. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad dozens of Linux users will be happy with it. I really do wish TAL success.

[midi sentinel]

I feel so conflicted with this one. On one hand I want to support TAL, but on the other hand I don't want to incentivize weird-ass decisions like this one.

What a nonsense. Not everything is about you.

There are people who are switching to Linux and are very happy to have a high quality native EQ options now. As one of them, I can assure you that his decision to make an EQ is very, very welcome here and I bought it the moment it was out.

There are new people coming into audio world, every single day and they do not have any EQs yet.

And so on, and so on.

So if it's not for you, just don't buy it and stop making it about you.

That’s fine, man. Just saying. If no one has bothered to make a good eq for Linux until today…that’s even weirder. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad dozens of Linux users will be happy with it. I really do wish TAL success.

I apologize for my tone in previous message. Now that I read it again, days later - it really was dumb. Sorry for that.

Let's hope next TAL project makes everyone happy

[GusGranite]

Classy reply! Good on you

[slackhead]

If no one has bothered to make a good eq for Linux until today…that’s even weirder.

Toneboosters have two very good EQs that are multi platform and work on Linux. Alongside a brilliant multi band compressor and others.

[ampetrosillo]

Maybe Patrick got tired of losing money to piracy with a simple serial that was easy to keygen. I don't blame him at all.

I've always found this attitude that developers have to either expose their product to easy piracy or you won't buy them is both shitty and suspect.

So instead of relying on keygens, pirates will disassemble the software and bypass the registration check. It's relatively easy. (I did it myself for shits and giggles on a videogame I owned).

[jamcat]

It’s a matter of scale and scope. When it is reduced, sales increase. This is quantifiable.

[Amon1973]

Got it, despite I surely didn't need another EQ... because it's TAL and the price with the combined intro + customer discount was OK. I use DMG EQuick (and EQuality) a lot due to being so fast, but also have ToneBoosters, Voxengo Prime EQ, SSL X-EQ, Pro-Q 3 for more advanced tasks, then Melda, TDR, my DAW's... but I'll use this a lot.
It's fast to operate as EQuick, but has all the features I use the others for, including dynamics, meaning I can use one EQ in place of fiddling with a few. Being so clean, sleek and fast to operate makes it a good all-rounder / go-to.
I like that controls are reduced to what is possible to use at any given time, reduces clutter and distraction.

[SilverLPs]

It’s a matter of scale and scope. When it is reduced, sales increase. This is quantifiable.

It's actually not. Not everyone out there is writing his own cracks or keygens, only a very small number of people has the capability to reverse engineer software like that.

For 99% of freeloaders it's only about downloading or using public warez stuff from actually very well known sites. That warez stuff is provided mostly by a few number of groups/individuals with high expertise in that field, and they can either crack the algorithm (which results in a "keygen") or circumvent the license check itself (which results in a "crack"). Valid keys are often prefered as a more "clean solution" but it's not like a crack would be an invalid option to them at all and it is very possible for the crackers to do it.

So switching to challenge/response is not going to reduce freeloading, because for freeloaders and crackers alike it's mostly irrelevant. And most developers probably know that very well so I'm starting to think challenge/response does not aim at the warez scene, it actually aims at the legitimate customer. It is meant to restrict how a customer can (or rather can not) use the software. For example the amount of activations you can make until you have to buy another license (or beg the developer to give you another activation).

Freeloading can't be prevented so developers and publishers go after their actual customers to get more money out of them. Sucks if you are the customer. I'm not in the position to know if it's worth for the developer in the long run, but unfortunately it seems like it is more often than not.

[jamcat]

For 99% of freeloaders

You’re describing a certain hardcore type. They don’t care that the software itself is altered. They’re collectors, and it’s more about “the scene” than actually making music for them. They will never ever buy their software. That would be counter to their purpose.

But there is another type: the casual pirate. They actually make music and buy their software. BUT if they can authorize “legit” software with a valid serial number from a simple keygen instead of spending money, they will. They’re not going to compromise their systems with “dirty” cracks or inconvenience themselves with emulators and IP blockers. They’d rather just bite the bullet and spend the money to avoid any hassles. I don’t know how large this group is in comparison to the first group, but I can assure you it is not an insignificant number.

It is this second group that developers are targeting with their anti-piracy measures, and those measures actually do pay off.

They will never stop all piracy. But the correct anti-piracy measures do succeed in converting a certain number of casual pirates into paying customers, and that has a measurable effect on sales.

[SilverLPs]

For 99% of freeloaders

But there is another type: the casual pirate. They actually make music and buy their software. BUT if they can authorize “legit” software with a valid serial number from a simple keygen instead of spending money, they will. They’re not going to compromise their systems with “dirty” cracks or inconvenience themselves with emulators and IP blockers. They’d rather just bite the bullet and spend the money to avoid any hassles. I don’t know how large this group is in comparison to the first group, but I can assure you it is not an insignificant number.

I estimate this group consists of approximately 0 people.

Seriously, I have never witnessed a "casual pirate" who is willing to break the law, go to a warez site, maybe even pay an OCH, Multi-Hoster or Torrent cloud service and then run a third party executable (keygen) to generate a keygen but at the same time would never run a slightly different third party executable (crack) that circumvents license activation because he considers it somehow more dirty than the keygen.

The amount of freeloaders fitting into this scheme is going to be so incredibly low. And it's definitely not a realistic scenario for a "casual pirate". The casual freeloader just wants his stuff to work for free or as cheap as possible. So at best he remembers some scene group names and warez websites that have proven to work for him.

There are people who consider keygens a more clean solution than cracks, but those are usually experienced people or scene members. The casual freeloader won't even be able to really explain you the difference, and he also doesn't care because he just wants stuff to work for free.

That is proven by the amount of complex cracks for big software packages with hard DRM-measures (iLok emulators etc). Those cracks are at least as popular as smaller releases with keygens, because freeloaders simply don't care about how it's done. They want the software without paying for it and for the crackers it's just another challenge they overcame to boost their reputation.

The freeloaders, casuals and hardcores alike, are laughing about us legitimate customers, because they don't have to deal with online activations, dongles, license management software, machine limits and so on. They get everything for free and the actual customer doesn't even get to freely use his own software in it's best form while spending large amounts of money. Does that sound fair to you?

Also the whole rhetoric about "but if it wasn't for those dirty pirates, then there wouldn't be the need for copy protection" is pure BS. Every form of DRM except for hardware dongles has proven to be completely useless when it comes to stopping warez and freeloading. This has been obvious for so many years now. It's a cheap excuse to legitimate the restriction of customers freedom to use their bought software how they want to, so that new sales opportunities can be artificially created. Freeloading, warez or the scene has nothing to do with it. The target has always been the customer.

Oh, and I think you are right, it's surely paying off for them most of the time, that's why they do it!
However, there are also so many developers out there, proving that anti-customer practices are not necessary to sustain a healthy business for many years.

u-he for example has been on warpath with warez and publicly mocked the scene for never being able to fully crack his software. He implemented multiple "time bombs" into his license verification system, still his software only uses simple serial numbers without any restrictions or online validation, the paying customer never notices any form of limitation or quality loss. And afaik his software remains not fully cracked to this day. THIS is how you deal with freeloading! You target warez users, not customers! That's one of the main reasons why I bought the whole u-he catalogue for the full 1430€ (and of course for the good Linux support ).

[audiojunkie]

For 99% of freeloaders

You’re describing a certain hardcore type. They don’t care that the software itself is altered. They’re collectors, and it’s more about “the scene” than actually making music for them. They will never ever buy their software. That would be counter to their purpose.

But there is another type: the casual pirate. They actually make music and buy their software. BUT if they can authorize “legit” software with a valid serial number from a simple keygen instead of spending money, they will. They’re not going to compromise their systems with “dirty” cracks or inconvenience themselves with emulators and IP blockers. They’d rather just bite the bullet and spend the money to avoid any hassles. I don’t know how large this group is in comparison to the first group, but I can assure you it is not an insignificant number.

It is this second group that developers are targeting with their anti-piracy measures, and those measures actually do pay off.

They will never stop all piracy. But the correct anti-piracy measures do succeed in converting a certain number of casual pirates into paying customers, and that has a measurable effect on sales.

"Correct anti-piracy measures" can still be serial number. It would pay well for developers to go through KVR threads to see the comments Urs from U-he has made regarding his serial number copy protection. His is the way to do it.

There will always be pirates who are unwilling to pay for their software. Likewise, there will always be the honest who won't pirate software. It is these honest people that are punished for the piracy of others. Think about it--pirates will never have to deal with the jumping through of hoops that copy protection creates. Only the honest will have to deal with that. The pirates will never have their software authentication stop working when a developer goes out of business--only the honest will.

It makes sense as a consumer to want to get the full value of what they pay for--these tools are seldom cheap. If I choose to buy a package, I expect to be able to use it as long as it remains compatible with the operating system. I'm not against developers protecting their work and their sales, but I expect the right to be able to grab a backed up installer and a serial number or keyfile from my hard drive and be able to install to a new computer when my old one dies, even if the company no longer exists. That is not unreasonable.

There is a sad truth that no one ever mentions or thinks about. I'm a linux user, but let's take that out of the picture for a moment, because it's irrelevant to this discussion. There have been so many times that I wanted to buy a plugin, only to find that it uses Challenge/Response. Developers have lost numerous sales from me........hundreds of dollars worth. I am not alone in this either. There are many, many of us that curate and track collections of software that meet the criteria of copy protection that doesn't punish the honest. Who gets OUR money? Those who don't punish the honest.

Lost sales are lost sales. No one ever considers this side of things........well, Uh-e, Audio Damage, and other do...

[audiojunkie]

It’s a matter of scale and scope. When it is reduced, sales increase. This is quantifiable.

Ah, but potential sales also decrease, because some won't buy C/R software, but no one has bothered to quantify the numbers for that.... So what is the likely result? A zero sum game with extra work putting in C/R, which pirates will eventually crack anyway.....