KVR Audio

pekadan · Post by **pekadan** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:52 pm

scuzzphut, did you ever try placing the normalizer before a gsuite effect in the insert chain? Just curious.

scuzzphut · Post by **scuzzphut** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 pm

no

maybe I should

fjell_strom · Post by **fjell_strom** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:14 pm

Well, boys, (and certainly girls) the search continues. So far, no luck with switching off guitar suite plugs, nor in inserting a normalizer--though inserting a normalizer certainly has the expected effect of stabilzing jumps in the vst performance meter.

Still, a very large jump inevitably occurs at some point (I have discovered the song does not even need to be playing...if I simply open the project and let it sit long enough, the meter will eventually overload) and the project is clogged. Even closing and reopenning Cubase sometimes does not reset the vst performance meter.

Here's another question, designed to give me some perspective: does anyone know what determines how many vst instruments you can safely run at one time per computer? Is it the processor? Is it the ram? I have anyhow a P4 with 3.06 GHZ and 512 ram. Despite the fact that my problem only arose recently, I would be interested to know what determines vst performance capacity. And certainly interested to hear other ideas on how to elimnate this overload occurance...

Thanks all! Dustin

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:37 pm

fjell_strom wrote:does anyone know what determines how many vst instruments you can safely run at one time per computer? Is it the processor? Is it the ram?

There is no way of telling, too many variables in the equasion... Most important factor is which VSTi's you use, and how! Some eat the whole PC, and some can have a thousand instances. Some are heavy on CPU, some are heavy on the harddisk.

There are a couple of ways to set up a project so it eats more resources than needed: each track its own reverb instead of sharing one instance, not freezing when done editing, not choosing efficient VSTs for the task, loading a 128MB soundfont for one triangle ping... I heard some people use different effects when editing and when rendering the final mix because of efficiency reasons.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:56 pm

Ok, well, if your VST meter still jumps with the normalizer in there, then it's one of the instruments. The normalizer does nothing for vst instruments, only effects.

Could you please list every vst plugin you're using and which host exactly that's in your project?

Devon

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:26 pm

I'm not familiar with Cubase, but does the VST performace meter reflect the CPU usage of the entire computer? If so, then it might be another program or service running in the background that's buggering you up.

fjell_strom · Post by **fjell_strom** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:37 pm

Right, Cookie, good points in general--certainly much to be said for freezing and just trying to be smart with vst usage. But something really seems to have changed in terms of how my computer handles situations which are not new to it, and I'd like to suss this out (thus windows reinstall and of course asking myself what changes I've made to the computer during the past two weeks. No luck yet.)

Lunch Money--this could certainly be something to investigate. I will!

DevonB--I'm using different plugins in different projects of course. I'm going to spend a bit of time finding the biggest troublespots (which projects are the worst culprits) and get back to you on this. Only thing--I've come to the 'hosts' section of KVR quite on accident. I understood Host to refer to which sequencing or recording software a person uses, as in my case, Cubase. What does host actually refer to?

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:42 pm

Lunch Money wrote:I'm not familiar with Cubase, but does the VST performace meter reflect the CPU usage of the entire computer?

Sometimes. I can open up IE, and the CPU meter bounces up and down while it opens up in Cubase. I dont' see it affected when I run Windows Media Player though, which is a huge CPU hog.

Devon

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:03 pm

Lunch Money wrote:I'm not familiar with Cubase, but does the VST performace meter reflect the CPU usage of the entire computer? If so, then it might be another program or service running in the background that's buggering you up.

Definitely one to look into, especially if the CPU peak is sudden. I use Cubase SX3 and was freaked once to have a project with only 2 VSTi's and 4 FX suddenly peak on me. Turned out I had forgotten to shut off my internet connection and my antivirus program was trying to do an update. NOT the thing to be doing while composing!

However, I'm experiencing something simliar in a project except that it is a gradual CPU increase. Here's what I'm running:

System--
Athlon 64 3400+
2 Gig RAM
2 7200 rpm SATA configured in a RAID as data drives (all samples playing from there)

VSTi's--
3 instances of M-Tron
1 instance of Lounge Lizard
1 instance of Moog Modular V
1 instance of Albino 2

I can't remember all the FX I'm using, but at least 2 instances of Waves RenEQ (6 band), 3 Waves RenVerb and 1 tube amp but I'm not sure which one (posting from work, so don't have access to the project).

With no freezing of tracks, the project starts at about 40% CPU. But that creeps up and up at a fairly slow and steady pace until I've been in the project for maybe an hour or two. By that time, the project is in the 80-90 range or higher. Restarting the project clears it. Freezing the Moog Modular (instrument only, not its channel) drops the initial CPU load to 20%, but the CPU creep continues.

The problem started before I added the Albino 2 track, so it's not that application. I think I first noticed it after I added the Moog Modular, which is playing a long sustained wind FX that runs for the entire 8+ minutes of the song.

Any ideas?

Orbitutle · Post by **Orbitutle** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:25 pm

Wow.. Interesting.. My current DAW is also P4 based, and I just hate the thing you talk about there.. Anyone made a list over progs that triggers the denormal mode?

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:44 pm

HI

I would argue that in any project you have the potential for this and any other conceivable 'untracable' spiking/leaking/peaking/draining/crashing of o/s or cpu, when you think about it the amount of information (millions of digits of code) cross indexed and interlinked MUST occassionally get f..... up?

That is a good reason to SAVE projects regularly and if necessary you can compare the 'last good' take with the buggured up one and NOT put that next vst in - because you know that the combination of variables will cause chaos!

If only I could follow this rule - life would be much more pleasant!

Flipper.

fjell_strom · Post by **fjell_strom** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:43 am

emdot_ambient...your thoughts about having the internet running in the background could be right on target. I only got flatrate broadband recently and have since been leaving it simply running most times the computer is on. Experiments with it switched off begin tonight! (off to work for the moment) Thanks very much for the suggestion.

Dustin

ghost666 · Post by **ghost666** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:27 am

scuzzphut wrote:I only experience this if I use any of the gsuite plugins - you know jcm900, redneftwin etc..

Same. So I stopped using 'em too!
Incidentally, does anyone know anything about the new
Simul Analog 'Vintage Suite' soon to be released & as mentioned here - http://www.simulanalog.org/technology.htm

pekadan wrote:scuzzphut, did you ever try placing the normalizer before a gsuite effect in the insert chain? Just curious.

Any particular normalizer... recommendations?

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:13 pm

There's only one normalizer I'm aware of. Digitalfishphones has the normalizer plugin.

Devon

fjell_strom · Post by **fjell_strom** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:40 am

Well, all, I couldn't say for 100% certain yet, but it does look as though simply having the internet running in the background played a role in my recent vst instrument spiking.

In my case, I was searching for something which could have changed in my setup only recently, because only recently did the problem arise.

This looks to be the culprit, and if I don't post again, you can assume it all came to a happy conclusion. I appreciate everyone's taking time to post and try and help. This was my first forum experience and a positive one at that.

Thanks all,
Dustin

Sudden VST Performance Overload in Cubase