Zebra 3 Public Beta Revision 20399

[faun2500]

The 4 macros don't save with the preset! Is that known already?

[Harmes]

Congrats to the beta release!

Really like the synth and what it already offers in beta!
There are still some issues in case of workflow which I want to share:

- Group modules:
The group creation is a great way to have a structured working environment, but I think it can even be improved:
- Having a different color for each group. So you can instantly see which module belongs to which group.
- Creating a group with only one module (exp.: right click and create group)
- adding modules by dragging them to a specific group. In this way you can quicker modify the groups you work with.

Because it can get complicated very quickly working with groups in a more efficient way really matters.

- Improving the browser view:
Increasing the letter size of presets in the browser. Depending on which display size you have, it gets really hard to read the presets and folders. It would be great if you can decide which letter size you want to have in the preset browser in % similar to plugin size.

- Making Z3 more CPU-friendly

- Scrolling issues:
I noticed similar scrolling problems as others mentioned here. Sometimes it doesn’t work or you move an encoder by accident.

Really like the beta so far and would be happy about the improvements that I listed here. Thanks a lot for the great synth and to make it even better in future!

[Andreya_Autumn]

However: it would be very handy while editing the Ratio parameter if Zebra 3's data display also showed the Mod:Carrier and actual ratio values, in addition to the 25.00–25.00 number.

Well, yeah... we'd have to find a clever way to represent it for the fractional values in-between.

I know you said you want to avoid non-linear scaling and I can see why. I do really think 2^x scaling on the value displays is the right answer though.

It lets the underlier be bipolar with 0 center (x^0 = 1), and gets rid of the off-by-one. Octaves up are 2,4,8... and down are .5, .25, .125 etc. The fact that octave = double/half the frequency is well known also by folks who are not Just Intonation nerds like me...

Modulation works well too, +1 octave of modulation is the same amount of knob travel no matter what your starting point is.

You see the point, we want the values we see to be the ones used in the DSP. And a 2^x knob achieves that. I'm gonna stop bothering you about this now. Promise.

[Urs]

Will there be the option to edit the voice index and tuning, something like in Serum 2 or Diva?

This works with the Mappers, and of course for some analogue goodness you can "Uncalibrate" the voices in the Pitches section.

[dengste]

I wonder, are the Perform/X/Y pads gone for good or will they reappear at some point?

Probably gone for good.

If, then there'll be two or so that map to Ctrl A/B/C/D

Just one datapoint: I LOVED the "perform pads" in Zebra2. I have a lot of presets which make use of at least 3, often 4 of them. It's fine if they map to MIDI CC, that is not that important (as long as settings are saved in the DAW set).

In any case, 4 controls is not enough, IMHO. Yes, I can of course map as much as I want and build pads with devices within the DAW, but having all of this in Zebra and saved as part of the preset is better (for me, at least).

[krans]

Will there come presets for the oscillators, like the wavetables in Hive2?
While I absolutely love the OSC editing tools, I tend to spend a lot of time in the OSC window, and I have been longing for the Wavetable menus in Hive2, where you can easily audition wavetable after wavetable and suddenly turn your patch towards a new direction.

I actually also miss presets in some of the modules, for instance the Delay. Having a rightclick and select a "Slapback" or a "Long Echo" and just a few starting points instead of setting everything up from scratch every time would be really handy.

Of course Zebra3 is a completely different synth than Hive2, but what I like so much about Hive2 is how effective the workflow is: You can have something quite simple, then turn one of the OSCs into a moving wavetable, audition the various wavetables, and then you can use some source to set up an Env follower to control whatever, and in just a couple of steps you went from simple sound to a rather complex soundscape.

You can of course make a lot more complex soundscapes in Zebra3, but when I sit and work with it, I feel like I start more from zero every time. A few shortcuts along the way, like OSC presets, MSEG presets, presets in a few of the modules would be really nice!

[rmbles]

Do you have any idea of a typical release cadence during the beta phase?

[digitalmy]

Thanks for those insights. Is there also a real-world counterpart of the „expanse“ filter?

Kind of. The filter model is based on the CEM 3320 filter chip that we also modelled for Repro, but without the code required to model a particular specimen. The different responses are created by mixing the 4 poles and the dry signal, much like how it was done in the Matrix 12 and Xpander. So this filter uses a "shortcut" to create the different responses, unlike all other filters which change the inner model to do so.

Thanks again, I really value this kind of background information!

[Chris-S]

The 4 macros don't save with the preset! Is that known already?

Yes. In the moment they ain't macros, just controllers.

[bluemoonone]

It’s great to see Zebra 3 coming to life, and I really appreciate the opportunity to beta test it.

I have a few questions regarding the current behavior:

1.) The knobs only move when they are automated externally. When using internal modulation, the knobs do not move. Is this intended behavior or a bug?

2.) Does the comb filter now require an oscillator as an input?

3.) Will there be a "regular" wavetable oscillator? As far as I understand it at the moment, the current implementation is more of a morphing oscillator (through up to five single-cycle waveforms).


Some ideas and feature requests:

1.) Please consider color-coding and activating modulations. At the moment, the modulation amount is only visible when clicking the "connect" icon.

2.) I would love to see the old envelope return, with delay and (even more importantly for me) rise / fall.

3.) It would be great if each envelope segment could be set to exponential and linear. Even better would be to still allow manual curve shaping on top of that.

Thanks.

[exmatproton]

1.) The knobs only move when they are automated externally. When using internal modulation, the knobs do not move. Is this intended behavior or a bug?

You don't want to have moving knobs when using internal modulators. That would be very annoying (for instance when you want one knob to be modulated by 10 modulators...). See the knobs/sliders in Zebra as offset knobs/sliders.

2.) Does the comb filter now require an oscillator as an input?

It needs an input. However, not only an OSC works. The (e.g.) noise and exciter modules work as well.

3.) Will there be a “regular” wavetable oscillator? As far as I understand it at the moment, the current implementation is more of a morphing oscillator (through up to five single-cycle waveforms).

Zebra3 isn't a wavetable synth. It uses splines. You can use 16 distinct splines per 1 OSC (not 5).

[chaosmeister]

Yep, on it.
So here's a video with something I've been working on:

[…]

The difficulty in figuring our which modulator modulates which parameter, is the problem that made me not "get into" Z2 and DarkZ, so I appreciate the fact you're thinking about solving this issue.
What you show in this video only connects modulators with modules (with a confusing amount of arrows , whereas modulators should be connected to a parameters: Env2 modulates the *rate* of LFO1. I'm not a fan of Synthmaster's way of user-interfacing (not at all in fact), but a simple list (like in SM) might do the trick for a complex synth like Zebra. A list with entries of the form "Module X modulates parameter Y in Module Z", and then be able to sort this list on either sources X or targets Z, and (while we're wishful add the ability to filter on source or target module (showing only all modules affected by LFO1, or only showing all modulators affecting parameters in OSC3).
As it is now, it's really a headache to reverse engineer patches (even your own after a few years), and it quickly gets tiresome to hunt for the proper module modulating whichever parameters creating that blip I'm hearing… For a monster synth of this calibre, stuff like this ought to be easy and accessible and not a source of headaches and frustration.

For the rest this a no-brainer purchase of course, even for the €179. What a dream machine. Congrats to the entire team!

[bluemoonone]

Thanks.

1.) The knobs only move when they are automated externally. When using internal modulation, the knobs do not move. Is this intended behavior or a bug?

You don't want to have moving knobs when using internal modulators. That would be very annoying (for instance when you want one knob to be modulated by 10 modulators...). See the knobs/sliders in Zebra as offset knobs/sliders.

I know that it's not an easy task to display all modulations clearly, and I still haven't found or seen a perfect solution. I really like how this is handled in Vital or Razor. If the knobs simply moved according to internal modulation, that would already be more than sufficient. I would really love to see something like this implemented.

2.) Does the comb filter now require an oscillator as an input?

It needs an input. However, not only an OSC works. The (e.g.) noise and exciter modules work as well.

Ok. I was just wondering about this because in Zebra 2 the comb filter doesn't require an input, but that's not really an issue.

3.) Will there be a “regular” wavetable oscillator? As far as I understand it at the moment, the current implementation is more of a morphing oscillator (through up to five single-cycle waveforms).

Zebra3 isn't a wavetable synth. It uses splines. You can use 16 distinct splines per 1 OSC (not 5).

However, why not add at least one "real" WT OSC? I don't think this would cannibalize Hive. I also see the two synths as different enough, even an overlap in having a WT OSC wouldn't change that.

[exmatproton]

I know that it's not an easy task to display all modulations clearly, and I still haven't found or seen a perfect solution. I really like how this is handled in Vital or Razor. If the knobs simply moved according to internal modulation, that would already be more than sufficient. I would really love to see something like this implemented.

So how would you control a knob when it is moving because of a modulator (LFO for instance)? That would be aweful.

[bluemoonone]

I know that it's not an easy task to display all modulations clearly, and I still haven't found or seen a perfect solution. I really like how this is handled in Vital or Razor. If the knobs simply moved according to internal modulation, that would already be more than sufficient. I would really love to see something like this implemented.

So how would you control a knob when it is moving because of a modulator (LFO for instance)? That would be aweful.

Good point. Then let the ring around the knob reflect the modulation (and for faders, a bar instead of a ring).