I'm blown away by the things you can do in zebralette, especially impressed by the implementation of trim and per voice modulation from the daw (in this case bitwig) on the clap version
It would be even more exciting to me if we were able to do sample accurate modulation/automation of these parameters - a global toggle for the whole plug with a warning would be good (I'm aware of the potential issues with clicks, filters exploding etc).
Doing smoothing on modulated params like volume etc is really missing out on some cool sound design possibilities I think. I know bitwig doesn't seem to support sample accurate automation but seems to support sample accurate signals from their modulators. Is this something that would be feasible? As far as I'm aware it is doable with clap
Sample accurate automation/modulation for zebralette 3?
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- u-he
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
It's a dilemma we're in. If we don't smooth, people will say "it's buggy, just listen to the zipper noise when you turn this knob".
In fact, several developers at u-he spent a large portion of November and before removing as much zippering as we could find from Zebra 3 and Zebralette 3.
In all formats but CLAP we evaluate parameter changes once per render block. So if your buffer size is 256 samples, automation will happen in a granularity of 256 samples. That is pretty much the reality of every developer I spoke to about this, hmmm, ever (because pretty much everyone still uses VST2 as their base format, but that is slowly changing, yay!).
In CLAP, due to its unified event queue, we evaluate parameter changes on a 64 sample basis. So if your buffer size is 256 samples, we'll evaluate events with a pretty fine granularity that also corresponds with the granularity of our ModMatrix system. In CLAP also if you use Parameter Modulation, you can modulate those parameters without further smoothing. The same applies to Note Expressions in CLAP.
We have the general issue on our radar. Once we switch AU and VST3 to fully support our CLAP layer, then in both of these formats we can evaluate automation with a higher granularity, too, and maybe then not makes sense to offer smoothing options. Furthermore, we have high expectations that we'll be able to offer Note Expressions in VST3 as well.
In fact, several developers at u-he spent a large portion of November and before removing as much zippering as we could find from Zebra 3 and Zebralette 3.
In all formats but CLAP we evaluate parameter changes once per render block. So if your buffer size is 256 samples, automation will happen in a granularity of 256 samples. That is pretty much the reality of every developer I spoke to about this, hmmm, ever (because pretty much everyone still uses VST2 as their base format, but that is slowly changing, yay!).
In CLAP, due to its unified event queue, we evaluate parameter changes on a 64 sample basis. So if your buffer size is 256 samples, we'll evaluate events with a pretty fine granularity that also corresponds with the granularity of our ModMatrix system. In CLAP also if you use Parameter Modulation, you can modulate those parameters without further smoothing. The same applies to Note Expressions in CLAP.
We have the general issue on our radar. Once we switch AU and VST3 to fully support our CLAP layer, then in both of these formats we can evaluate automation with a higher granularity, too, and maybe then not makes sense to offer smoothing options. Furthermore, we have high expectations that we'll be able to offer Note Expressions in VST3 as well.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 29 Mar, 2014
Thanks for your detailed reply, very happy to hear this is something on the radar
This is something I've been curious about - for smoothing do plugins differentiate between parameter changes via UI interaction vs by automation/modulation/expression?
It makes sense to have significant smoothing on UI param changes as this is not a continuous stream of values for each sample but for automation/modulation/expression I guess this depends how this is implemented in the DAW?
For eg in Surge XT it is advertised as having sample accurate automation but I've not managed to get achieve this in bitwig or reaper (see below) - are there any DAWs that you know of that actually support sample level precision of automation/modulation/expression for clap plugins?
This is something I've been curious about - for smoothing do plugins differentiate between parameter changes via UI interaction vs by automation/modulation/expression?
It makes sense to have significant smoothing on UI param changes as this is not a continuous stream of values for each sample but for automation/modulation/expression I guess this depends how this is implemented in the DAW?
For eg in Surge XT it is advertised as having sample accurate automation but I've not managed to get achieve this in bitwig or reaper (see below) - are there any DAWs that you know of that actually support sample level precision of automation/modulation/expression for clap plugins?