SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[Shabdahbriah]

Let's keep the discussion to SWAY. I don't think anyone is interested in discussing other synths here, least of all sheaf.

+1

[Compyfox]

But then again you must also think Sway is a DX7 emulator and not an SY77 emulator because you can use it to 6 op FM with sine waves

I never claimed anything like that, and neither will comment on that. Except for the fact that the FM engine in the TG Series is an update of what was in the DX series up until this point
And yes, you can recreate patches(!) of old if one does so desire as bonus option.

(I have to make this clear, because interpretation is thing with this fellow)

Don't bother to reply unless you want to apologize for the false information you posted. Let's keep this on topic and stop spreading false information

You once more twist and turn things to show off how much more you "know", how wrong others are (even way before I joined the conversation), while throwing insults on top and now demand a f'n apology from me?!

Get lost!

Everyone is sick of your "education" sh#t at this point, "bird". I am (more than) done with your constant insults and downplaying of knowledge/skillset to show off your superiority.



Steinberg / Yamaha FM Lab is an official product/port of the FM engine.

The rest is up to personal opinion regarding "accuracy", taste and availability. And everyone has different needs, taste and budget.



You got the hardware (plural), you will never be happy with anything. You made this clear multiple times. So, leave us the f#ck alone, would you kindly!!!

[Spitfire31]

You have been reported, both of you.
/JHS

[Compyfox]

Perfect! Appreciated.
I also pinged a more active mod last night.

Maybe there will finally be movement. I/We can only take so much sh#t from this individual.

[IvyBirds]

But then again you must also think Sway is a DX7 emulator and not an SY77 emulator because you can use it to 6 op FM with sine waves

I never claimed anything like that, and neither will comment on that. Except for the fact that the FM engine in the TG Series is an update of what was in the DX series up until this point
And yes, you can recreate patches(!) of old if one does so desire as bonus option.

(I have to make this clear, because interpretation is thing with this fellow)

Don't bother to reply unless you want to apologize for the false information you posted. Let's keep this on topic and stop spreading false information

You once more twist and turn things to show off how much more you "know", how wrong others are (even way before I joined the conversation), while throwing insults on top and now demand a f'n apology from me?!

Get lost!

Everyone is sick of your "education" sh#t at this point, "bird". I am (more than) done with your constant insults and downplaying of knowledge/skillset to show off your superiority.



Steinberg / Yamaha FM Lab is an official product/port of the FM engine.

The rest is up to personal opinion regarding "accuracy", taste and availability. And everyone has different needs, taste and budget.



You got the hardware (plural), you will never be happy with anything. You made this clear multiple times. So, leave us the f#ck alone, would you kindly!!!

Not sure why you want to continue to derail this thread or encourage people to buy plugins that are not SWAY. To me that's BS and a pretty crappy thing to do, but you do you

If you actually had knowledge of what you think you do you wouldn't be trying to get people to buy HALion7 just to do Yamaha Style 4op FM with TX81Z waveforms. The SY77 did that just fine, so SWAY will do that just fine. Let me repeat that for the inexperienced neophytes in this thread like yourself, SWAY will do just as good if not better than HALion7 when it comes to 4op FM sounds with TX81Z waveforms and algorithms

There are also readily available and free tools easily found online that would allow you to convert TX81Z Sysex to DX7, and then convert those to SY77 format which will load into SWAY.

A little bird told me that if you search in the Ivy of Archive.org when SWAY gets released you will find hundreds of TX81Z patches available in SY77 Sysex, and thousands of DX7 patches available in SY77

It will not sound the same as the TX81Z but then HALion7 doesn't either

Halion7 doesn't even try to emulate the tone generator or DAC of a Yamaha budget rack synth from 1987 it's not an emulation of one. Instead it reads the patch data from a SYSEX file and translates or converts it to a HALion7 file where it will turn off 4 of the operators and arrange the other 4 like the TX81Z did. The sound engine driving all of that is very very different, it is in no way a port (bang on or other wise) of the TX81Z. If it were they would sound exactly the same as they are both digital instruments, however they sound very very different

If you really want to do 4op FM with TX81Z waveforms get SWAY, stop being an arse and telling people in the SWAY thread to buy other products

Also please note unlike your rants, this post is 100% on topic to SWAY. Please don't bother to respond unless you are going to apologize to everyone for your lack of knowledge when it comes to the capabilities of SWAY and/or SY77 and for trying to get people to buy other products which is an insult to Sheaf

[carrieres]

Mute him

[IvyBirds]

One more note with using SWAY with TX81Z patches

Since SWAY has 6 operators and TX81Z had four you can recreate anything from the TX81Z and still have a pair of operators left over along with a feedback loop. This is a pretty significant advantage when it comes to sound design, even if all you do is recreate a part of the TX81Z patch and then detune the carrier to fatten the whole thing up

For example Lately Bass on the TX81Z uses Algorithm 4, which is a "2+2" structure. Instead of one long chain of operators, it consists of two separate pairs of modulators and carriers.
​Operator 1 & 2 (Pair A): These provide the "body" and the fundamental of the bass.
​Operator 3 & 4 (Pair B): These provide the "snap," "bite," and high-end harmonic grit.

So you would just duplicate pair A and slightly detune the carrier. And bring down the amplitude of both pairs to balance it out

The end result is a super phat thick bass sound. Sheaf you should make that one of your presets

[Compyfox]

Mute him

I have this bloke muted, yet he comes back for more (I still get the pings), says whatever I / others write is wrong, then twists and turns things as if only this person is in the right.

Like...that post on the TX81z right now... Suddenly the TG-77 can do what the TX81z and DX7 could. But wait! Not an official Steinberg / Yamaha product if we only talk FM engine. Something something "no accurate emulation" nonsense and all.


These posts have been reported multime times over. Others now also chime in and do the same. Mods have been PM'd. Nothing happens. I give up - I don't have the brain matter for this sh#t anymore. Disappointing, to say the least.


Hey @sheaf

At this point I'll just subscribe to your newsletter, I appreciate your efforts. Good luck on the final stretch.

Let's hope your VSTi is in the 69-79 EUR price range, then I might bite.




...and then I'll GTFO of here and only post in the global competition post from now on. Teaches me right trying to have a normal conversation on KVR.

Drink your water and touch grass, folks.

[IvyBirds]

Mute him

I have this bloke muted, yet he comes back for more (I still get the pings), says whatever I / others write is wrong, then twists and turns things as if only this person is in the right.

Like...that post on the TX81z right now... Suddenly the TG-77 can do what the TX81z and DX7 could. But wait! Not an official Steinberg / Yamaha product if we only talk FM engine. Something something "no accurate emulation" nonsense and all.


These posts have been reported multime times over. Others now also chime in and do the same. Mods have been PM'd. Nothing happens. I give up - I don't have the brain matter for this sh#t anymore. Disappointing, to say the least.


Hey @sheaf

At this point I'll just subscribe to your newsletter, I appreciate your efforts. Good luck on the final stretch.

Let's hope your VSTi is in the 69-79 EUR price range, then I might bite.




...and then I'll GTFO of here and only post in the global competition post from now on. Teaches me right trying to have a normal conversation on KVR.

Drink your water and touch grass, folks.

Again dude have some class and stop posting garbage on this thread and encouraging people to buy a product that isn't SWAY on the SWAY thread

And guess what? The mods are not deleting my posts, and are ignoring you because I am not violating any forum rules, and they know what I am posting is correct

Also stop lying about me and misrepresenting what I said. Look I get the fact you are a Neophyte and have no idea what you are talking about, but all Yamaha style FM Synths work pretty much the same way with operators and algorithms. It doesn't matter if it's a plugin or a hardware synth

The differences are in how the tones are generated in the Oscillator Section and the DACs if we are talking 1980s hardware which impart lots of sonic character, and of course what waveforms are available to use

With SY77 Yamaha gave it all of the waveforms from TX81Z plus more

As a result you can replicate patches from one synth to another as long as you have enough available operators. With 4 op Synths this is especially easy on Synths with 6 or 8 ops. Doing 4op patches on a SY77, or a Montage or SWAY or even a DX7 doesn't make them emulations of a TX81Z or anything else, it is just a function of those synth engines and if you do it on a Montage or HALion7 it end up being way to clean and pristine compared with the TX81Z hardware which is why adding extra detuned operators to give it more punch is a real advantage. (The other secret weapon is using the Symphonic Chorus patch on the Yamaha FX500, or other Yamaha budget digital effects boxes from 80s or 90s)

That's what HALion7 and SWAY can do with TX81Z patches. That is exactly what I said they can do, and you will notice I also said they won't sound the same as the TX81Z because they are not emulations of them and are not trying to be, they are just doing Yamaha style FM.

In fact using them to do 4op FM is kind of a waste as you end up with extra operators that can be used to enhance 4op patches. SWAY will excell at this

[soundman007]

I do not think IvyBirds should be muted or reported at all. His messages contain a lot of real interesting information and he is clearly very knowledgeable. That does not mean I don't want the petty fight between a few antagonists to stop. Please get back to discussing facts, preferably related to SWAY.

[Ben [KVR]]

From this point forward anyone posting anything in this topic not about Sway risks being suspended for at least a week.

[TonyS]

I can't wait for Sway to be released. I replaced the battery on the DM-1 board and my SY77 is working great.

[IvyBirds]

The waveforms in question that Yamaha started to use when they moved their FM away from just sine waves are quite fascinating. They often get referred to as TX81Z waveforms but in reality they are really just Yamaha FM waveforms and are included in many Yamaha FM Synths including the SY77 which of course SWAY is inspired by

What makes them special is that they are all essentially additive and replace what used to take a pair of two operators with sine wave only FM Synths like the DX7. So when used with a 4op synth you could do lots of this that would take 6 or even 8 operators on a DX7

For example "Wave 2" on later Yamaha Synths (including the SY77 and TX81Z) is a mixture of odd and even harmonics. That mixture is very handy with FM programming as it sounds like bright reedy woodwind sound and can also be shaped with envelopes to be percussive. You can achieve it with a pair of sine wave operators with a 2:1 ratio. If you set the output of the modulator you will get something that sound pretty much like Wave 2

Yamaha used this on the a bunch of the famous DX7 factory patches like the infamous E. Piano 1, E. Bass 1, and Oboe

With SWAY you can run 6 of them at the same time set up in any arrangement you want. In many ways it's like having a DX7 with 12 operators

The impacts of this with FM programming is insane

Wave 2 also makes for a very impressive FM Bass sound when FM modulated with a percussive bass sample using RCM. There were several such samples in the SY77 ROM, but I am really looking forward to SWAY having sample import ability to use this with a sample of the "Slap Bass" preset from the Korg M1. You would use the MOD Wheel to adjust the output of this sample into the carrier. The sample essentially shakes or vibrates the waveform. With the wheel all the way down you get pure FM bass that should be pretty clean, the more of the sample you introduce with the wheel the more it shreds apart and becomes gritty. If you also have the filter open up at the same time all that grittiness will also shine in the higher frequencies

This is something that only the SY77 and SY99 could do, and something that SWAY should be able to do also

Anyway that's enough nerding out with FM Geekery for today, can't want to get my hands on SWAY

[MusicalCervid]

What I'm hoping is if there's a way we can get the OEM factory patches from available resources, or even have them included with SWAY to begin with in addition to author made factory presets. The most I could find (that are free, I guess?) are some prehistoric SY99 patch librarians/editors that happen to have the factory presets included, parameters and all; though, it'd be extremely tedious to try to make sysex files out of it, plus I can't really export the config files from the program... Any leads?

[Uncle E]

Here you go:

https://bobbyblues.recup.ch/yamaha_sy77 ... banks.html