Zebra 3 Public Beta Revision 20399

[ffx]

Looks already very useful, but why are you using the system context menu?

Because system context menus are reliable and just work.

We have spent a year or two on a project to convert all pop ups and dialogs into system windows because of the problems that self made pop ups, text fields etc. pose.

Well, I think you are mixing up things here. Yes, it was a good decision to use system context menus, at least for contents list of unknown sizes. But of course a proper UI set includes a flexible selectbox like thing. If you exactly know the contents which will be shown, I can't see any benefit in using the very basic system standard. Also like 100 plugins already solved that problem, including DAWs.

[Urs]

If you want something to pop up and stay for further action, that is not a context menu. Let's call it a "modulation pop-up" instead.

To answer your question, let's look at the example of visibility: A system provided context menu "lives" in its own window. It's temporary and guaranteed to hover on the top level of the UI, exceeding the calling window's boundaries. Implementing one's own context window in a plug-in environment is a pretty useless endeavour: The plug-in itself can live in any kind of window in any sort of nested hierarchy that can push any kind of other window down the visibility lane into "wherever". We've been there, we won't make that mistake again.

There are more reasons to use system context menus, such as plug-in formats that can embed their own items into it, and probably a gazillion of things that I'd need a coffee to recall, or one of our UI specialists.

A modulation pop-up would not be implemented the same way. One wouldn't put it in its own external window, simply (but not only) because it would not be guaranteed to hover above the plug-in window. So one would always draw it *inside* the plug-in window, or put it in a window that is nested inside the plug-in window, i.e. does not exceed its boundaries.

That said, we'll be discussing options to open a modulation pop-up, but if it happens it will of course have to happen some time later, after an initial release and after we have time to experiment with the current and other systems.

[viraven8]

Happy Holidays, I'm really enjoying Zebra 3's beta. I've made a ton of crazy mind-warping sounds. I have 2 questions regarding the Modal engine:

1. Any Chance for a separate stand-alone Modal effect/synth?

I would love to apply the Modal engine as an external effect to my other plugins... or just use it as an actual stand-alone synth plugin separate from Zebra 3.

2. Will there be more packs of Modal Resonator Spectra that can be purchased or downloaded?

The current selection is perfect for most uses, but I could still use a few more. I also don't feel like making these from scratch, as I'm not a fan of coding or making CSV files.

The Modal Engine is by far my favorite part of Zebra 3, it sounds SUPER clean and realistic!

[plugmon]

In the discussion about popup menus, I’d like to emphasize that OS-standard menus support type-to-select navigation (I’m not sure how this behaves on Windows tho).
You can jump to an item instantly by typing its name, and continue navigating with the arrow keys.
I don’t think this level of keyboard navigation can be reliably achieved with custom in-plugin menus.

Of course I appreciate visually pleasing menus. However, as a sound designer, the thing I value most is speed. Once you’ve memorized the items, you no longer even need to glance at the menu.

[jarenas]

So yes, Zebra is fully stereo inside and out. We have plans to look into adding 3 more stereo outputs, like, from the FX lanes directly, but our specialist for this is on parental leave currently. Maybe we can make it for the final 3.0 release, and if not then later.

Ah ok, if once more outputs were added, they could "simply" choosen here, GUI-wise:
zebra3-outputs-affinity-skills.jpg

I enthusiastically join this request, separated stereo plugin outputs for master + buses would make mixing and creating even more complex effects chains in a DAW a pleasure.

And, oh btw, It's been a pleasure creating sounds in z3 during these last days, it sounds amazing at all times and I have only scratched the most superficial surface of it... instant purchase for me. Congrats on the hard work!

[ffx]

If you want something to pop up and stay for further action, that is not a context menu. Let's call it a "modulation pop-up" instead...

I think I understand you, however, the way of how it is currently, using plain context menus for everything doesn't seem to be a modern, common approach. These days most users are used to modern web uis, which all bring custom elements. I understand that you don't use a browser engine for rendering, but maybe you could rethink the current approach a bit, regarding

a) the visibility of modulation, exactly representing what's happening, whichout the need of guessing
b) making it very intuitive and easy to use.

Maybe this doesn't need a pop-up at all, and could be solved in a smarter way. Maybe some color coding, using rings, using alpha layers, something expanding/collapsing. I mean have a very capable graphics engine built, why not extensively use its features then?

Using sub context menus is neither intuitive nor easy to use, also not for disabled persons, that's my main critics here. Maybe you could then at least use checkboxes in the context menu

Sorry, if I am nagging here, but this bothers me

[JoSh_007]

Hello, I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to mention that I'm missing the modulation of the Pitch FINE parameter. Or have I overlooked something?

[Beachboy]

Hello, I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to mention that I'm missing the modulation of the Pitch FINE parameter. Or have I overlooked something?

One example would be to add a module in the modmatrix as shown in the screenshot. If you have unison=1 then the detune knob also acts as a fine parameter.

Fine.jpg

[JoSh_007]

.. in the modmatrix as shown in the screenshot....

Thanks, I didn't think of that. I thought there might be a right-click option or a modulation slot next to the finepitch knob.

[Mimieux]

Hi Urs,

Would u-he consider implementing tuned feedback like Dave Smith implemented in the Prophet 12, Pro 3, etc.?

[IronSharpensIron]

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We don't expect the sound to change drastically during the beta phase, but there might be slight changes due to bug fixes or improvements.

Am I correct in my understanding that Zebra 3’s wavetable oscillators are limited to 101 frames? If so, I’m curious as to why the limit is in place.

https://www.carvetoy.online/ (https://www.carvetoy.online/)

Maybe you have heard of carvetoy. It’s a great tool for creating wavetables. Carvetoy does let you export at 101 frames, but there are thousands of 256 frame wavetables ready to use.

Is it possible that this limit could be lifted to support 256 frames?

I was very happy to get Zebra 3 for Christmas yesterday. The sound is really amazing.

Note for anyone importing wavetables: It seems that the wavetable editor has a maximum of 64,000 samples. So for optimal wavetables, create 101 frames at 512 samples per frame.

[dayjob]

We don't expect the sound to change drastically during the beta phase, but there might be slight changes due to bug fixes or improvements.

Am I correct in my understanding that Zebra 3’s wavetable oscillators are limited to 101 frames? If so, I’m curious as to why the limit is in place.

https://www.carvetoy.online/

Maybe you have heard of carvetoy. It’s a great tool for creating wavetables. Carvetoy does let you export at 101 frames, but there are thousands of 256 frame wavetables ready to use.

Is it possible that this limit could be lifted to support 256 frames?

I was very happy to get Zebra 3 for Christmas yesterday. The sound is really amazing.

Note for anyone importing wavetables: It seems that the wavetable editor has a maximum of 64,000 samples. So for optimal wavetables, create 101 frames at 512 samples per frame.

urs posted about waveforms and wavetables and splines etc.. here's a link to the page in the thread he gets into more details.

viewtopic.php?p=9155424#p9155424

Zebra 3 has a built-in waveform editor, but it is vector based, using splines - as opposed to sample based waveforms that wavetables are made of. You can import and vectorise individual waveforms from .wav files, and Zebra 3 will create a smooth transition between two or more of them. But it won't import hundreds of frames, only up to 16.

However, wavetable import is hit and miss. In most cases, hand edited waveforms and transitions sound much better. And like Hive's .uhm generated wavetables, they are as crisp as it gets.

Here's a video from three years ago (gosh) that shows what Zebra 3 waveforms are made of, and what kind of transitions it can do easily:

also, - this info is scattered in that thread but gets to the methods and idea of why it is the wa it is etc.

viewtopic.php?p=9158466#p9158466

Also, don't get me wrong. Serum's editor is great for what it is - one can quickly draw a nice waveform or stitch some wavetables together. Works. But doesn't do what Zebra does.

Zebra simply isn't a wavetable synth. And the reason for that becomes most obvious when things that are effortless in Zebra are close to impossible to accomplish in a common wavetable synth.

[IronSharpensIron]

Thanks for the details. So just a design decision based on the intended direction of the synth. Makes sense.

[Emadees]

Hi, if it has been mentioned, mb.

First of all, if I save a preset and have adjusted the controls(a,b,c,d), the preset won't save with those control-settings. Also, if I adjust the controls, and save a project, the controls will be reset when I re-open the project. (this is in an older fl-version, so I don't know if it is linked to that, but I doubt it)

Kind of annoying, hope you can look into it.
Also, Svf-filter is really, really nice, so fantastic job with that one! Any reason why it only has a 12 db version?
I also feel like adjusting detune is doing much more to the tune compared to in zebra2. It's like the sound is sounding as detuned at like 3 in zebra3 compared with like 7-8 in zebra2. But I haven't done an a/b, so maybe I'm simply crazy.

Lastly, I stumbled across a bug, where when I was clicking the piano, it sometimes froze with a note pressed down, so I constantly heard a sustained version of my sound until I removed the zebra3 instance playing that sound.

[magickalmutagen]

Lastly, I stumbled across a bug, where when I was clicking the piano, it sometimes froze with a note pressed down, so I constantly heard a sustained version of my sound until I removed the zebra3 instance playing that sound.

I believe this is a feature that let's you hold a note via the GUI: Double-click a piano key on the Perform tab to hold a note. Single-click any key to release the held note.

I made some suggestions earlier for how this could be improved and extended (holding multiple notes for chords, shifting the offset, etc).