Zebra 3 Public Beta Revision 20399

[Urs]

If Zebra were to adopt a similar approach, one possible solution would be to always show dimmed modulation dots at all time.

I know. Hence our internal builds already have it:

Wow — exactly this!
Yep, that’s precisely what I meant. Looks like I didn’t need to say anything

Hehehe, no worries... the visualisation of "what modulates what" is probably the most discussed theme of this thread, and the whole beta period. More so than the absence of a sequencer or the issues of CPU load.

It took me by surprise a bit, so we're implementing an initial set of visual clues, just like you suggest, and we'll probably put more focus on it in future work.

[wheelD]

can you please implement tooltips values on pointer hover for knobs sliders and everywhere where it makes sense , similar to vps avenger as an optional tick please? for
zebralette3 and zebra 3?
It would help tremendously for users which prefer to use it with windows magnifier glass
Thank you

[Urs]

can you please implement tooltips values on pointer hover for knobs sliders and everywhere where it makes sense , similar to vps avenger as an optional tick please? for
zebralette3 and zebra 3?
It would help tremendously for users which prefer to use it with windows magnifier glass
Thank you

Tooltips are something we want to do, but haven't had time to do yet. Not sure if we can do it this year.

[Urs]

If Zebra were to adopt a similar approach, one possible solution would be to always show dimmed modulation dots at all time.

I know. Hence our internal builds already have it:

Wow — exactly this!
Yep, that’s precisely what I meant. Looks like I didn’t need to say anything

Hehehe, no worries... the visualisation of "what modulates what" is probably the most discussed theme of this thread, and the whole beta period. More so than the absence of a sequencer or the issues of CPU load.

It took me by surprise a bit, so we're implementing an initial set of visual clues, just like you suggest, and we'll probably put more focus on it in future work.

BTW we will also visualise the modulation sources that have actual modulations going. So one does not have to go through modulators that are not assigned to anything.

[stippenstoh]

Sounds great!

Is there still room to improve CPU performance of some filters (e.g. Yellow is a bit heavy on my Macbook Pro M1)?

[Urs]

Yellow is really meant for monophonic sounds or low polyphony. We are thinking about offering an economic mode for it, but haven't made a final decision yet. If we do it, it'll probably happen in a later update.

[jtsterays]

One thing that's very fast in Hive is being able to change octaves in the Osc by just scrolling the octave box. However, I don't think that box should be in Z3, maybe hold alt + drag/scroll instead? I'm aware of key control but it's still slower.

Also with Hive, Serum or it's clones. You can alway see the osc octave and semitone numbers. Z3 doesnt have this, so I cant tell if the knob is at 11 or 12 at a glance. Ofc you can hover your cursor and look at the display, but that means shifting your eyes away, and the readout only lasts for 2 sec. And that's just 1 osc, imagine 6. I think the semitone value should be displayed next to Tune like "Tune (6), Tune (-4)" or something. Theres no real overview atm.

[redlester7]

Just purchased the update and installed today. Sounds great, am really excited about this going forward.

I have not read all of this thread, is there a process by which we will be informed when a new Beta is available, and is there a target date for the full commercial release, presumably including NKS functionality?

[Urs]

Just purchased the update and installed today. Sounds great, am really excited about this going forward.

I have not read all of this thread, is there a process by which we will be informed when a new Beta is available, and is there a target date for the full commercial release, presumably including NKS functionality?

The final release will certainly be announced through our newsletter: https://u-he.com/newsletter/

[Matfink]

Great work on Z3 it’s sounding epic
Sorry if i missed a request like this (89 pages!). Im not a fan of the coloured favourites thing -- any chance of just a simple 1-5 star rating like eg Omnisphere? I find this the best way to rate and also mark whether I’ve visited a preset.

[BBFG#]

Please don't.

[ashone]

I've just started using the zebra3 synthesizer. I'd like to ask what the specific values of the ADSR in Envelop are. I checked the manual but couldn't find it.

[Urs]

I've just started using the zebra3 synthesizer. I'd like to ask what the specific values of the ADSR in Envelop are. I checked the manual but couldn't find it.

As this comes up often, let me chime in as to why I'm not a big fan of displaying envelope times in seconds.

The envelopes are exponential, just like analogue ones. So each phase starts fast, and then flattens out towards the target value. It means, the curve is always the same, regardless of how long or short notes are played. This is a familiar and natural thing, it is hard to match with envelopes based on rigid curves.

It also means, the perceived end of such a movement can be anywhere near the target value. It is subjective and context dependent as to where the modulation ends.

What complicates matters is that the times will vary in dependence of Sustain and other modifiers. Like, Decay gets shorter when Sustain is higher. Release time depends on where Attack or Decay currently is - if the envelope is half way from the top, Release is tad shorter than if it started from the top.

Bear in mind, Zebra 3 envelopes have modifiers that add a lot of dynamics into this, from "stacking" the attack point to stretching or bending the times. This can bend times quite a bit as well.

Furthermore, Attack is the only phase that has a distinct start and end. Decay and Release mathematically take forever to reach Sustain or zero respectively.

For these reasons I find precise time readouts, well, misleading.

However, there is a standard called RT60, which defines -60 dB (or 1/1000) as a threshold to measure beginning and end of exponentially decaying values over time. I might put that in, but we then have to add a disclaimer to the user guide that these readouts are just for general orientation, they are not precise values.

In contrast, some synthesizers offer what appears to be linear envelopes that map a mathematical curve onto each segment. Those may always have the same defined start and end times, and a precise readout is justified. But what happens then is that the perceived envelope rate varies from where Attack/Decay leave off into Release, or based on Sustain value. I always find that awkward.

In Zebra 3 both concepts can be tried and compared. The MSEGs can be used as VCA envelopes, and building a standard ADSR is easy with them. When used with Adaptive release, they behave like those envelopes in synths with value independent times, but then differently perceived rates.

[fese]

Hello,
First, let me say props to u-he for sticking to the initially announced upgrade price of 30€ for Z2 owner after all this time (and inflation). Bought the update immediately without even downloading the beta.

I do have some usability issues with Z3 though that I'd like to share. Excuse me if they have been reported before, i haven't read through the whole thread.I also on purpose didn't have a look at the manual before, I wanted to see how I got around without that (and of course "real men don't read manuals" )

1)
The oscillator waveforms, either in the seaparate editor or in the OSC1-4 section at the bottom. Take the init patch, it looks like this:

init saw.png

I see a saw wave, when I play, I hear a saw wave.

Now I click on the icon with a sine wave:

init sine.png

I see a sine, but when I play, it is still the inital saw wave. This is quite the opposite of WYSIWYG, a disconnect between what happens on the screen and what I hear. Rather irritating.
As far as I can see, the only way to get the oscillator to change its wave is to use the morph knob, but that is a) slower than just clicking on the icons and) hard to land exactly on the waveform I intend to. Maybe I need to read the manual at this point, but I just tried to use it as a regular dummy user
EDIT: So just by accident I discovered that with a double click I get what I expected to happen, the waveform matches the sound that I hear. Now that leaves the question if that is the best default behavior for the majority of users?


Also: I can move those waveform icons around, but only if I use the tiny points on the dotted line. Why can't I just drag the waveform icons? They are a much bigger target for the mouse, much easier to hit.

2)
The left toolbar in the oscillator editor: I am personally not a fan of buttons with just icons. Icons are ok to use if they are well known and have already become a standard where it can be expected that most users know the (e.g. the cogwheel, the hamburger icon). For anything else, I as a user always have to try to remember what that icons should represent as an action. An icon combined with a short text is way more helpful, especially for tools and functions one maybe doesn't use that often.
Yes, there is a mouse over description of the button's function, but instead of having it as a tooltip appearing next to the mouse cursor like in pretty much any other software, it appears in a completely different section of the UI at the top where I explicitly have to move my eyes to, and then maybe back in case I want to check the tooltip for another button.
(this is valid for all of Z3, there seem to be a lot more icons/buttons without labels, and I think a conventional tooltip display at the cursor position - maybe optional like in other plugins - could be quite helpful).

3)
I really would love to have some back/forward arrow buttons for stepping through the oscillator FX. Would make "just trying out stuff" much easier and less clicks/cognitive load that "click to open the menu/locate the next entry/click again to select that". There are more than twenty FX algorithms, I simply cannot remember what each of them does exactly and often just want to cycle through them to see what happens.

[aMUSEd]

1)
The oscillator waveforms, either in the seaparate editor or in the OSC1-4 section at the bottom. Take the init patch, it looks like this:
init saw.png
I see a saw wave, when I play, I hear a saw wave.

Now I click on the icon with a sine wave:
init sine.png
I see a sine, but when I play, it is still the inital saw wave. This is quite the opposite of WYSIWYG, a disconnect between what happens on the screen and what I hear. Rather irritating.

That's because this is showing points in time as the wave morphs between saw, sine and square, it is not a static waveform, nor is it the OSC's waveform loader (which I think you are seeing it as). Think of it like a film strip, you can skip ahead to a specific point but the film will always start at the beginning.