Zebra 3 Public Beta Revision 20399

[JoeLowery215]

If anyone wants to hear Zebra 3 go to the bathroom...

Frankie Pss.h2p.zip

[Shiek927]

Are you planning on attending NAMM, Urs?

[Urs]

Are you planning on attending NAMM, Urs?

I won't be there in person, but we have a section in the Music Marketing booth 16300.

[Urs]

Would love more control over the ModNoise. HP or LP would be good enough.

ModMath offers HP and LP (slew limiter).

I wouldn't want to add extra controls for ModNoise...

[JoeLowery215]

Would love more control over the ModNoise. HP or LP would be good enough.

ModMath offers HP and LP (slew limiter).

I wouldn't want to add extra controls for ModNoise...

Ah thanks didn’t know you could change mod noise with mod maths!

Check out the patch I attached!

[sarmad5]

A feature request for 3.1

@Urs I just watched your arpeggiator video and loved it.

I don't know if it's currently possible, but is there a way to modulate pitch source for Oscillators? If not, it would be a great feature to have a knob that can do that, perhaps in 3.1? Thank you.

[Urs]

A feature request for 3.1

@Urs I just watched your arpeggiator video and loved it.

I don't know if it's currently possible, but is there a way to modulate pitch source for Oscillators? If not, it would be a great feature to have a knob that can do that, perhaps in 3.1? Thank you.

The point of the Pitch modules is that a lot of modulation can be done within them.

You can't dynamically switch Pitch sources or crossfade between them. I think that would just be too much of a mind bender...

However, I'd be happy to discuss more options and flexibility with those modules. E.g. I can think of applications where one would like to crossfade between two separate keys, if that is what you're after.

[Urs]

(also, we want to add sample and hold to the pitch modules... probably in 3.1)

[Fannon]

MPE Timbre typically maps to CTRL-A for us, so we recommend to set it to CC #74.

We currently do not interpret CCs as bipolar though, which is compatible with the MPE specs even though they encourage bipolar interpretation. We might eventually add this as an option later on.

I know I brought this up before, but especially now that you consider merging Macros with Ctrl (which I think is a good idea) - I'm worried that this approach will cause quite some problems:

With the previous u-he synths, Ctrl A or B were almost always unassigned, so I could use the free slot to assign the Timbre modulations. But with Zebra 3, Ctrl A-D will most likely always be already assigned - like macros had been in the other synths. This is a problem, because it conflates setting up macros (usually unipolar) with setting up Timbre (usually bipolar). Also the intent / effect of a Macro may be totally different from what you want with setting up via Timbre.

Chances are high that Ctrl A-D are already assigned in a way that it doesn't really work for MPE timbre. Most preset authors do not have MPE in mind, nor should they have to. There are also no strong convention / rules how to do this. With an MPE controler setup, I might have to first remove Ctrl modulations to make a patch playable and free it up to use it for Timbre modulation instead.

The solution to this is actually very simple and also done by other MPE Synths: Make Timbre its own modulation source (like you added release velocity, which I think is even more fringe). You could combine both approaches, but I think this alone is simple and sufficient. With explicit Timbre mod source it is also easy to understand which patches have been setup for MPE explicitly. Most patches won't have this, but it's less work to set up timbre modulations myself than having to first fix / clean up an existing patch to make it playable with my MPE controller just to get started.

[Urs]

So all of our presets in all synths afaik have Ctrl A/B assigned, with very few exceptions. Our preset design guidelines specifically outline that Ctrl A needs to be assigned, and preferably in a way Timbre is supposed to be used (the MPE specs are vague here, so...)

I'm convinced that it does not make sense to create an extra Timbre expression because in MPE you can not use Ctrl A/B otherwise. So you could as well unassign Ctrl A, maybe "bake it into the preset", then take Ctrl A for whatever you'd set up any dedicated Timbre control. You can't use Ctrl A in any meaningful way with MPE because only the controller has knowledge of which MIDI channel Ctrl A is sent to, so you'd have to send the respective CC on all channels at once, and you'd lose the polyphonic aspect that people have who use other workflows.

It's the whole point of conflating macros, CCs and expressions because in most scenarios they are used mutually, and usually for the same things. A huge part of our user base has never been able to get all out of our plug-ins because their hosts and controllers do not provide for a workflow that make use of MIDI Controllers or the related expressions. This needs to change...

We do realise though that different MPE controllers need differently set up presets. Hence, we have started creating preset banks specifically for MPE controllers such as Osmose, which take existing presets and map AT and Ctrl A in meaningful ways. I'm sure this will happen for Zebra 3 as well, but we do also face economic challenges that require us to prioritise a larger audience first.

[sarmad5]

I understand.

The idea popped up when I saw your arpeggiator video. I was thinking if we could change the pitch sources dynamically with a mapper, we could also get the same arpeggiator effect using just one oscillator. But after reading your post I think a dynamically controllable source key within the pitch page would be a better candidate for it?

A feature request for 3.1

@Urs I just watched your arpeggiator video and loved it.

I don't know if it's currently possible, but is there a way to modulate pitch source for Oscillators? If not, it would be a great feature to have a knob that can do that, perhaps in 3.1? Thank you.

The point of the Pitch modules is that a lot of modulation can be done within them.

You can't dynamically switch Pitch sources or crossfade between them. I think that would just be too much of a mind bender...

However, I'd be happy to discuss more options and flexibility with those modules. E.g. I can think of applications where one would like to crossfade between two separate keys, if that is what you're after.

[Fannon]

I'm convinced that it does not make sense to create an extra Timbre expression because in MPE you can not use Ctrl A/B otherwise. So you could as well unassign Ctrl A, maybe "bake it into the preset", then take Ctrl A for whatever you'd set up any dedicated Timbre control. You can't use Ctrl A in any meaningful way with MPE because only the controller has knowledge of which MIDI channel Ctrl A is sent to, so you'd have to send the respective CC on all channels at once, and you'd lose the polyphonic aspect that people have who use other workflows.

It's the whole point of conflating macros, CCs and expressions because in most scenarios they are used mutually, and usually for the same things. A huge part of our user base has never been able to get all out of our plug-ins because their hosts and controllers do not provide for a workflow that make use of MIDI Controllers or the related expressions. This needs to change...

We do realise though that different MPE controllers need differently set up presets. Hence, we have started creating preset banks specifically for MPE controllers such as Osmose, which take existing presets and map AT and Ctrl A in meaningful ways. I'm sure this will happen for Zebra 3 as well, but we do also face economic challenges that require us to prioritise a larger audience first.

Thanks for the long reply! I'm not sure I fully got why I couldn't use CTRLA/B otherwise - couldn't I just trigger them via regular MIDI knobs, which are not polyphonic anyway? Yes, CTRL A might be assigned with most standard presets, with external preset packs it's not always the case. But already here, this caused me sometimes the mentioned problem that using CTRL A for MPE Timbre led to me first unassigning it's modulation targets before I could play the patch as it was originally intended on my MPE controller.

If you go that route: Will there be a clear convention which of the CTRL A-D should represent timbre, logically? And one idea: Could there be a "right click -> Remove all modulations" on CTRL A-D, maybe also other modulation sources? That would make it more convenient to re-assign it from scratch.

Thanks for taking so much time and thought on the community feedback here!

[Urs]

Could there be a "right click -> Remove all modulations" on CTRL A-D, maybe also other modulation sources? That would make it more convenient to re-assign it from scratch.

Here's what I got so far (right-click on Ctrl A):

Screenshot 2026-01-18 at 22.22.58.jpg

[Urs]

So you can quickly remove and reassign targets, or swap between two modulators altogether. Wanna swap Ctrl A and ModWheel? - One click.

(Target Finder is an experimental thing where we visually point out the targets of a modulations source while hovering the draggable source)

[Matty686]

MPE Timbre typically maps to CTRL-A for us, so we recommend to set it to CC #74.

We currently do not interpret CCs as bipolar though, which is compatible with the MPE specs even though they encourage bipolar interpretation. We might eventually add this as an option later on.

I know I brought this up before, but especially now that you consider merging Macros with Ctrl (which I think is a good idea) - I'm worried that this approach will cause quite some problems:

With the previous u-he synths, Ctrl A or B were almost always unassigned, so I could use the free slot to assign the Timbre modulations. But with Zebra 3, Ctrl A-D will most likely always be already assigned - like macros had been in the other synths. This is a problem, because it conflates setting up macros (usually unipolar) with setting up Timbre (usually bipolar). Also the intent / effect of a Macro may be totally different from what you want with setting up via Timbre.

Chances are high that Ctrl A-D are already assigned in a way that it doesn't really work for MPE timbre. Most preset authors do not have MPE in mind, nor should they have to. There are also no strong convention / rules how to do this. With an MPE controler setup, I might have to first remove Ctrl modulations to make a patch playable and free it up to use it for Timbre modulation instead.

The solution to this is actually very simple and also done by other MPE Synths: Make Timbre its own modulation source (like you added release velocity, which I think is even more fringe). You could combine both approaches, but I think this alone is simple and sufficient. With explicit Timbre mod source it is also easy to understand which patches have been setup for MPE explicitly. Most patches won't have this, but it's less work to set up timbre modulations myself than having to first fix / clean up an existing patch to make it playable with my MPE controller just to get started.

He hasn't actually added release velocity yet what you are calling release velocity is actually a release gate I know because urs told me he would add release velocity later and I want to tell you also release velocity isn't fringe its Awesome I use it on surge so i don't have to bother trying to record MPE witch is a total Nightmare in my opinion I typically map the normal velocity to shorten the main envelope attack and I use the release velocity to lengthen the release if anyone is wondering how to use release velocity and why you would this is the best way to use it and you use it for wind instruments and other sustaining leads if your too clumsy to record with an MPE keyboard. its fun Awesome and when used in combination with a macro knob that you can automate in the daw (global intensity knob) replaces pressure for those in need of such a thing because they are either too clumsy to record live or have no ability to keep time (I fall in both these camps). only a few synths support release velocity as of yet hear is I list of ones I know Surge XT, UVIFalcon, PhasePlant, and I hope to god that zebra 3 will get it soon. The daws that support for composing with release velocity best are Reaper and Ableton live. Bitwig has support for it but its a bit non standard (I now use reaper because I need something that's going to be around for ever and my synth I currently use is surge XT once zebra three gets release velocity I will probably switch to that) so yah its not fringe its just most people have never tried it because there is not much information on the web about how to use it. Using it dose not make you a dweeb it just means you like pressure articulations without the headache of real MPE pressure and the absolute hell that is trying to compose with it by hand.