Zebra 3 Public Beta 2 Revision 20552

[ThoughtExperiment]

The list I'm referring to is what you see if you click the 'source' label in the mod matrix (screenshot attached)

Thanks for answering. I was confused since it has been something like 10 years since that list in u-he synths had Breath as an option.

No problem. TBH this is driving me more nuts than it really ought to - I've never missed aftertouch but now I'm trying desperately to fake it
I'll get over it, eventually.

The easy answer of course is to get a midi controller with AT

I also have 2 Expression Pedals I have connected to my midi controller.

I think it would be more flexible if Zebra 3 presets had controllers A, B and C assigned, but left D unassigned so there is a control option open for users... without having to figure out which of A,B,C and D they want to unassigned.

Well under the circumstances I probably would get a new keyboard, but for two reasons: I really don't get on with AT (I'm a pretty crap keys player so I keep triggering it accidentally); the second reason is I only replaced my old keyboard last year...

I agree it would be nice to have a 'spare' assignment, but I'd guess we're already past the point where that would be a possibility. Maybe u-He could make CC2 available again? (Just kidding)

[pdxindy]

Well under the circumstances I probably would get a new keyboard, but for two reasons: I really don't get on with AT (I'm a pretty crap keys player so I keep triggering it accidentally); the second reason is I only replaced my old keyboard last year...

That was why I mentioned an Expression Pedal. If your keyboard has a pedal input, then you could use it directly with your existing keyboard. (There are also tiny expression to midi adapters if your keyboard doesn't have a pedal input)

I mostly use AT with my MPE controllers where it is per voice (polyphonic) and better integrated.

There are lots of non-MPE sounds where I don't use AT exactly for the reason you stated. I often prefer the Expression Pedal because it is more controllable, like a mod wheel via the foot.

[JoeLowery215]

There's something I've been struggling to do in Zebra 3 that maybe someone here can help me out with. I'm basically trying to cleanly morph between first and second harmonic sine waves (i.e. a normal sine and a sine one octave up). You can achieve this In Zebra 2 for example using the "Sine Tree" oscillator preset, and it looks something like this:

It's essentially like cross-fading between two oscillators and no additional overtones are introduced.

In Zebra 3 using the Curve Spectrum as the oscillator source, the best I can do is this:

As you can see, it basically dips to silence in the middle. Adding an additional wave frame in the middle with both harmonics gets me close but the transition tapering is all wrong and it's impossible to get the levels exactly right in the middle frame. Another possibility was using Curve Geometry as the source and drawing a sine in one frame and two in the other, but it's impossible to get it to morph nicely without getting higher overtones. Of course you might be able to cross-fade between two separate oscillators but that rules out applying any oscfx to the result.

Any ideas?

See if this works by moving CTRL A knob.

I thought the curve filter would work but I got the same problem you did...silence. Which is unfortunate. Also thought the regular filter would work too. I'll try that again

Sine to Double Sine.h2p.zip

[Urs]

So, while certainly not ideal, I figured out how to trick the logarithmic gain scaling into an almost linear crossfade.

First of all, I had to figure out how to more or less linearise the first point moving down, in order to fade the fundamental out. This works pretty well by easing out 100%.

Then, in order to fade the first overtone in, I had to not directly move a point up, but push a curve across the second line of the harmonic grid. That curve had to start rising as quickly as possible.

So with Point-by-Point Morph and some trickery I think I got pretty close:

Crossfade Two Partials.zip

(Note: Not perfect, but much better than silence... tweak the morph if needed)

Cheers,

- U

P.S.: Great example though where Zebra 3 might need some options to simplify things... I was thinking about a "true" crossfade morph that doesn't use the splines but directly crossfades the results... might come in handy...

[Urs]

Oh! The other option is a Normalise for the oscillator... that's also what happens in Z2... always been on my wish list, but hadn't found the time yet...

[JoeLowery215]

So, while certainly not ideal, I figured out how to trick the logarithmic gain scaling into an almost linear crossfade.

First of all, I had to figure out how to more or less linearise the first point moving down, in order to fade the fundamental out. This works pretty well by easing out 100%.

Then, in order to fade the first overtone in, I had to not directly move a point up, but push a curve across the second line of the harmonic grid. That curve had to start rising as quickly as possible.

So with Point-by-Point Morph and some trickery I think I got pretty close:

Crossfade Two Partials.zip

(Note: Not perfect, but much better than silence... tweak the morph if needed)

Cheers,

- U

P.S.: Great example though where Zebra 3 might need some options to simplify things... I was thinking about a "true" crossfade morph that doesn't use the splines but directly crossfades the results... might come in handy...

Thanks Urs I'll check your way out. Did you check out how I did it? I didn't know we couldn't crossasde between partials like in Z2. Whatever you can do to implement that, would be awesome.

It's great for all types of sounds (as you know)...I think a true crossfade morph would be perfect.

Thanks, Joe

[JoeLowery215]

So, while certainly not ideal, I figured out how to trick the logarithmic gain scaling into an almost linear crossfade.

First of all, I had to figure out how to more or less linearise the first point moving down, in order to fade the fundamental out. This works pretty well by easing out 100%.

Then, in order to fade the first overtone in, I had to not directly move a point up, but push a curve across the second line of the harmonic grid. That curve had to start rising as quickly as possible.

So with Point-by-Point Morph and some trickery I think I got pretty close:

Crossfade Two Partials.zip

(Note: Not perfect, but much better than silence... tweak the morph if needed)

Cheers,

- U

P.S.: Great example though where Zebra 3 might need some options to simplify things... I was thinking about a "true" crossfade morph that doesn't use the splines but directly crossfades the results... might come in handy...

Oh your way is super elegant! I didn't know you could do that (that the shapes of the partials can determine the output/morph that way. Super useful. Thanks

[JoeLowery215]

Also it doesn't seem there's a way to manually edit the morph curves right? It's essentially automatic settings? Will that feature be added?

[ThoughtExperiment]

Well under the circumstances I probably would get a new keyboard, but for two reasons: I really don't get on with AT (I'm a pretty crap keys player so I keep triggering it accidentally); the second reason is I only replaced my old keyboard last year...

That was why I mentioned an Expression Pedal. If your keyboard has a pedal input, then you could use it directly with your existing keyboard. (There are also tiny expression to midi adapters if your keyboard doesn't have a pedal input)

I mostly use AT with my MPE controllers where it is per voice (polyphonic) and better integrated.

There are lots of non-MPE sounds where I don't use AT exactly for the reason you stated. I often prefer the Expression Pedal because it is more controllable, like a mod wheel via the foot.

That's a great idea, thanks for this. I have a Nektar SE49 which has a TRS pedal socket. As it happens I also have an M-Audio expression pedal on my guitar pedal board. I'm not sure if it'll work with the keyboard but it won't break anything if I give it a try. I'll check it out tomorrow. Fingers crossed
Thanks again for your help

[Urs]

Also it doesn't seem there's a way to manually edit the morph curves right? It's essentially automatic settings? Will that feature be added?

No, the automatic nature of it is deliberate. There are a few more improvements I have ideas for, but I don't think adding control points for the transition curves brings enough extra value. I do not think it would justify making this thing a whole lot more complicated.

[JoeLowery215]

Also it doesn't seem there's a way to manually edit the morph curves right? It's essentially automatic settings? Will that feature be added?

No, the automatic nature of it is deliberate. There are a few more improvements I have ideas for, but I don't think adding control points for the transition curves brings enough extra value. I do not think it would justify making this thing a whole lot more complicated.

Fair! I'm just trying to figure out the easiest, most intuitive way to do smooth transitions like the crossfade partial preset you sent

[magickalmutagen]

Would you consider adding a way to invert a modulation source (perhaps via a curve) before it reaches its destination? It's probably already possible but I couldn't figure it out.

Reason being: I'm currently trying to recreate a macro knob I previously made in a different synth (Serum 2) which lets me increase the velocity sensitivity of the keys from not sensitive (notes are always max velocity i.e. max loudness) to sensitive when the knob is turned up (notes respect the velocity received).

How I achieved it in S2 was negative modulation on a filter's level which is set to its default, but with the incoming velocity mod source inverted (via the mod's curve), and the macro knob as its "Aux Source" (presumably "Via source" in Zebra 3) in the matrix. Can this be achieved in Z3, and if so how? A screenshot of Z3's matrix would be great.

[liquidsound]

* Browser: Double-clicking a preset now switches to the Synth tab: Not happening (W11)
If I use Shift+Double-Clicking then it works but the Shift has its own problem is selecting as you can imagine.

Edit: ALT behaves like that as well.

[Urs]

Would you consider adding a way to invert a modulation source (perhaps via a curve) before it reaches its destination? It's probably already possible but I couldn't figure it out.

Reason being: I'm currently trying to recreate a macro knob I previously made in a different synth (Serum 2) which lets me increase the velocity sensitivity of the keys from not sensitive (notes are always max velocity i.e. max loudness) to sensitive when the knob is turned up (notes respect the velocity received).

How I achieved it in S2 was negative modulation on a filter's level which is set to its default, but with the incoming velocity mod source inverted (via the mod's curve), and the macro knob as its "Aux Source" (presumably "Via source" in Zebra 3) in the matrix. Can this be achieved in Z3, and if so how? A screenshot of Z3's matrix would be great.

So for Velocity and envelopes specifically you'd simply map one of Ctrl A..D to the Velocity slider of an envelope, as in, keep the Velocity slider at 0.00, but then map e.g. Ctrl A onto that with a depth of +100.

For anything modulated through the Mod Matrix, you have multiple choices. The first one that comes to mind is use Velocity as "Via" Source, and use Ctrl A..D to modulate that Via Depth from 0 (no Velocity) to 100 (full Velocity). But that wastes a Modmatrix slot for each modulation.

Another option is to setup a ModMath module to crossfade between Constant and Velocity as your Via Source, and use a single Matrix slot to map Ctrl A..D onto the ModMath X value. However, "Constant" is not available yet (should be very soon), so you'd temporarily use a second ModMath just for this. I can make a screenshot if needed, once I'm in the office later today.

This is an interesting problem that In hadn't thought of before. There's no way currently to do this globally for Velocity itself or for its special role in envelopes.

[tasmaniandevil]

It's on Arch, Reaper 7.58, VST3i, latest 20552 version. Can/shall we take this offline and I can get you the rest of the details?

Yes, absolutely. Please contact our support, so we can gather some more details.