So, Omnisphere...is it ever on sale??

[keys_au1]

...........Nice post, I think that it must be possible to accurately model a piano. And I mean model, not sample!
Has this not been done?

Have a look at Modartt PianoTeq about the best modelled pianos (and EPs) you will find.

sorry I cannot figure how to get rid of that underline (did NOT select it in the B I U " section at the top)

[keys_au1]

And to complicate it even further, I am considering tossing it all (softsynths etc) and moving to a Yamaha MODX M6/7 and run the ESP software instead hahaha!

As an owner of the excellent Montage M8, I wouldn't get a Montage or a MODX unless you need it as a gigging board for which it's awesome

For studio use, just get HALion7 is better in just about everyway

It'd be the ESP vsti plugin I'd be using for gigging live...Already have two decent controllers and the PC to run it all on stage.

[keys_au1]

Kontakt gives you the full editor (instead of just the Kontakt player), and the core library, which is decent quality for light weight instruments. Having the full editor is handy in case you need to make internal instrument tweaks, and some third party instruments require the full version of Kontakt. Komplete adds a mixed bag of other sampled instruments and effects, and some good synths. There is a lot of filler in there, and some of the instruments have annoying issues, while some are very decent. On sale at $199? Yea, sure.

Be aware that many NI products don't support hires displays.

My biggest complaint with Komplete is issues with the included pianos. It's obvious that NI doesn't take pride in curating issue free instruments from their contracted developers. NI instruments aren't generally down to the level of IK, but they are far and away from Spectrasonics quality. I forget how many add-on pianos are included in Komplete (like half a dozen), but none of them are on par with Keyscape's C7, even though Keyscape's C7 has fewer features.

One annoying thing re Kontakt 8 (not the Player) is I cannot do simple things like edit the attack and release times of basses and guitars. So I can use them without a sustain pedal. They are rather short in release times in general I have found. Mebbe (if MODX is off the table) HALion might be the go instead??

[DCrown]

...........Nice post, I think that it must be possible to accurately model a piano. And I mean model, not sample!
Has this not been done?

Have a look at Modartt PianoTeq about the best modelled pianos (and EPs) you will find.

sorry I cannot figure how to get rid of that underline (did NOT select it in the B I U " section at the top)

Pianos are ok, but about the best EPs? I don't think so.

[keys_au1]

[quote=DCrown post_id=9190747 time=1769366967 user_id=519458]
[quote=keys_au1 post_id=9190724 time=1769363147 user_id=536632]
[quote=Grizzellda post_id=9190451 time=1769317989 user_id=352033]
...........Nice post, I think that it must be possible to accurately model a piano. [i][u]And I mean model, not sample!
Has this not been done?
[/quote]

Have a look at Modartt PianoTeq about the best modelled pianos (and EPs) you will find.

sorry I cannot figure how to get rid of that underline (did NOT select it in the B I U " section at the top)
[/quote]

Pianos are ok, but about the best EPs? I don't think so.
[/quote]

Modelled (not sampled) There is Lounge Lizard and I have that as well, but I find the Modartt ones are more realistic (having owned a few actual wurlys and Rhodes in my time) and more easily tweakable, particularly on the higher versions of PT.

But, as always with these things, it is purely personal as everything sounds different to everyone

[sellyoursoul]

Nice post, I think that it must be possible to accurately model a piano. And I mean model, not sample!

Has this not been done? It seems to have been done with guitar amplifiers. Or, it is an on going work in progress, like my silly life! (Drink less beer!)

It is the idea of a vibrating string, and I think good minded people have been working on that stuff...pretty sure, and I think the results are fabulous.

Hardware floor modelling pedals are awesome, and if anybody says that Amplitube 5 is "not good"...

Well I am going to disagree.

The status of modeling depends on who you ask, with a spectrum of some people having said that modeling was on par 20 years ago, some saying that it doesn't sound as good but has other benefits which overall outweigh the sonic issues, and some shunning it until it sounds on par with sampling / convolution.

Amplitude's amps aren't great in frequency response. Have you compared to Tonex profiles running through the same chain? It's a pretty drastic difference.

[sellyoursoul]

One annoying thing re Kontakt 8 (not the Player) is I cannot do simple things like edit the attack and release times of basses and guitars. So I can use them without a sustain pedal. They are rather short in release times in general I have found. Mebbe (if MODX is off the table) HALion might be the go instead??

Have you looked in Kontakt's editor to see what is possible for those instruments? I'm snowed in away from my daw, so I can't take a look right now.

[sellyoursoul]

Pianos are ok, but about the best EPs? I don't think so.

Maybe I'm a lot more sensitive to such things than others. Pianoteq sounds atrocious, both pianos and EP's. People who play with darker pianos tend to get on better with Pianoteq, and the general consensus seems to be that where Pianoteq is preferred, it's about the velocity response, not about the sound, which definitely makes sense. If anyone wants the best EP's, look at Keyscape.

[keys_au1]

Pianos are ok, but about the best EPs? I don't think so.

Maybe I'm a lot more sensitive to such things than others. Pianoteq sounds atrocious, both pianos and EP's. People who play with darker pianos tend to get on better with Pianoteq, and the general consensus seems to be that where Pianoteq is preferred, it's about the velocity response, not about the sound, which definitely makes sense. If anyone wants the best EP's, look at Keyscape.

haha, yeah maybe
Oh I have Keyscape too

[keys_au1]

One annoying thing re Kontakt 8 (not the Player) is I cannot do simple things like edit the attack and release times of basses and guitars. So I can use them without a sustain pedal. They are rather short in release times in general I have found. Mebbe (if MODX is off the table) HALion might be the go instead??

Have you looked in Kontakt's editor to see what is possible for those instruments? I'm snowed in away from my daw, so I can't take a look right now.

Didn't know it even HAD an editor (at least, I could not find one)...is that a separate download from Native Access?

Ahh found this after a quick search - pretty basic controls there https://www.native-instruments.com/ni-t ... bY8g9fQuJX

[sellyoursoul]

One annoying thing re Kontakt 8 (not the Player) is I cannot do simple things like edit the attack and release times of basses and guitars. So I can use them without a sustain pedal. They are rather short in release times in general I have found. Mebbe (if MODX is off the table) HALion might be the go instead??

Have you looked in Kontakt's editor to see what is possible for those instruments? I'm snowed in away from my daw, so I can't take a look right now.

Didn't know it even HAD an editor (at least, I could not find one)...is that a separate download from Native Access?

Ahh found this after a quick search - pretty basic controls there https://www.native-instruments.com/ni-t ... bY8g9fQuJX

Switch to classic view, then click the wrench icon on the header.

Usability of the editor isn't great, but it's not lacking in depth.

[keys_au1]

One annoying thing re Kontakt 8 (not the Player) is I cannot do simple things like edit the attack and release times of basses and guitars. So I can use them without a sustain pedal. They are rather short in release times in general I have found. Mebbe (if MODX is off the table) HALion might be the go instead??

Have you looked in Kontakt's editor to see what is possible for those instruments? I'm snowed in away from my daw, so I can't take a look right now.

Didn't know it even HAD an editor (at least, I could not find one)...is that a separate download from Native Access?

Ahh found this after a quick search - pretty basic controls there https://www.native-instruments.com/ni-t ... bY8g9fQuJX

Switch to classic view, then click the wrench icon on the header.

Usability of the editor isn't great, but it's not lacking in depth.

ok thanks - I'll search how to get to classic view and try it. Appreciate your assistance
edit: haha, easy F10!

[Grizzellda]

Nice post, I think that it must be possible to accurately model a piano. And I mean model, not sample!

Has this not been done? It seems to have been done with guitar amplifiers. Or, it is an on going work in progress, like my silly life! (Drink less beer!)

It is the idea of a vibrating string, and I think good minded people have been working on that stuff...pretty sure, and I think the results are fabulous.

Hardware floor modelling pedals are awesome, and if anybody says that Amplitube 5 is "not good"...

Well I am going to disagree.

The status of modeling depends on who you ask, with a spectrum of some people having said that modeling was on par 20 years ago, some saying that it doesn't sound as good but has other benefits which overall outweigh the sonic issues, and some shunning it until it sounds on par with sampling / convolution.

Amplitude's amps aren't great in frequency response. Have you compared to Tonex profiles running through the same chain? It's a pretty drastic difference.

Alright, thank you for this...and everyone for contributing. Good stuff here.

As for Tonex, have not got, never used it, but it looks great in the advertising... (yeah, I know, ADVERTISING!!!...but I still like IKM). I look forward to exploring it.

Looks like it is designed to basically run Amplitube created patches LIVE, without a computer. Is this correct?

[sellyoursoul]

Alright, thank you for this...and everyone for contributing. Good stuff here.

As for Tonex, have not got, never used it, but it looks great in the advertising... (yeah, I know, ADVERTISING!!!...but I still like IKM). I look forward to exploring it.

Looks like it is designed to basically run Amplitube created patches LIVE, without a computer. Is this correct?

Tonex is a different tech than Amplitube. A Tonex profile is a capture of a real amp, pedal, or pedal into an amp, at given settings, similar to an IR of a speaker (a spectral snapshot). The profiles can be loaded into Amplitube, or the Tonex software. The major benefit of a profile over a model is higher resolution, and if done well, the profile sounds pretty well identical to the recorded amp, where that is definitely not the case for a modeled amp, lacking in resolution.

The downside of a profile is that it is a snapshot of an amp, pedal, or amp into a pedal at given settings, and amps (and pedals) can sound very different at different settings, which can't be made up for with eq and volume, although profile loaders such as Tonex do provide volume and eq controls, which are essentially like adding post amp eq/volume that don't behave like the tonestacks and volume controls on real amps.

Hopefully that is all thoroughly confusing.

[Grizzellda]

The major benefit of a profile over a model is higher resolution, and if done well, the profile sounds pretty well identical to the recorded amp, where that is definitely not the case for a modeled amp, lacking in resolution.

I really feel that modeling is the way forward. More computer power and software advances should increase the resolution.

"Profiling" sounds basically like sampling.