If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[martinjuenke]

If NI really does replace a large part of music creation, who is actually going to buy plugins anymore?

That doesn't mature very well ...

[DCrown]

@wagtunes
what I really do not understand is why you as a music lover pay so much attention to this thread and waste time.
Wouldn't it be better to produce and release, release and release if you want to compete, AI gives you the opportunity to release a very lot of new tracks, the more the better....
What our world needs the most is more music.
Competition isn't sleeping!

[Zeisner]

Everyone who does not feel how soulless this version is, even though or just because it tries to be soulful,
has sold his soul to AI.

There was no soul to begin with. No complex and deep emotions, no sensitivity, no meaning or purpose and no intelligence. Many people are just, well... the natural equivalent to AI.

[wagtunes]

@wagtunes
what I really do not understand is why you as a music lover pay so much attention to this thread and waste time.
Wouldn't it be better to produce and release, release and release if you want to compete, AI gives you the opportunity to release a very lot of new tracks, the more the better....
What our world needs the most is more music.
Competition isn't sleeping!

First of all, I have probably written and recorded more songs in my lifetime than you will ever write in 100 lifetimes. So I can afford to take a little of my time on this thread.

And I don't have to compete. I have my nice little niche in the music world and most of what I do is for my own enjoyment anyway.

So don't worry about me. I'll be just fine.

[jancivil]

"How could you play in the NBA if you couldn't play basketball better than average or even not at all?!"
People that follow basketball can tell if you can't get the ball thru the hoop or consistently fumble your dribble, or have poor awareness of who's in position to score or never pull down a rebound, or whatever your position is about. A team of totally uncompetitive players isn't going to happen.

People in the general consumer of commercial music sphere can't reasonably be all expected to know what musical competence means, let alone compositional qualities. A great many are wildly successful because they are so totally average. Beyond this, competence or a level of virtuosity does not through itself amount to any value artistically, it might be an empty exercise. This analogy is as poor as can be.

[wagtunes]

"How could you play in the NBA if you couldn't play basketball better than average or even not at all?!"
People that follow basketball can tell if you can't get the ball thru the hoop or consistently fumble your dribble, or have poor awareness of who's in position to score or never pull down a rebound, or whatever your position is about. A team of totally uncompetitive players isn't going to happen.

People in the general consumer of commercial music sphere can't reasonably be all expected to know what musical competence means, let alone compositional qualities. A great many are wildly successful because they are so totally average. Beyond this, competence or a level of virtuosity does not through itself amount to any value artistically, it might be an empty exercise. This analogy is as poor as can be.

Thank you.

[jancivil]

I don't even know what dude was arguing, it was just a shit analogy (long-muted member I only see if quoted). If it was if you're commercial you must be good, I'm not regretting getting into it so much.

[bermudagold]

Everyone who does not feel how soulless this version is, even though or just because it tries to be soulful,
has sold his soul to AI.

There was no soul to begin with. No complex and deep emotions, no sensitivity, no meaning or purpose and no intelligence. Many people are just, well... the natural equivalent to AI.

are you saying Prince had "no soul" or the prompter?

[wagtunes]

Okay, here you go. This is just a small snippet from a song I'm working on. Two versions. No processing at all on either version. Dry as a bone.

Tell me which version you think sounds better. One is my voice and one is the AI voice. No, I'm not telling you which is which. And to make it harder, there is no pitch correction on either one yet. So you won't be able to tell from that.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... est-vocals

[Tiles]

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

The only valid option remaining is to turn off the internet now. Even years old songs might be improved by AI already. AI has long arrived. And it will stay.

Why not trust your own ears? If it sounds bad, discard it. If it sounds good, why not listen to it? That’s the only measure that should matter in music. There is enough music around that is this generic that you simply will never hear a difference if the music is made by a human or AI. The whole techno genre for example.

And i have to disagree. DCrown has not a single valid point. All he has is his big hate against AI and its users and a bunch of strawmen and cherrypicked examples. Assuming that every musician has to win competitions like the super bowl first before he is allowed to release a song is behind craziness. It shows the lack of any common sense. And that he starts to flame people shows that he has run out of arguments.

[Grizzellda]

But everything will be cool, and alright...

Because we are with a" central Creator control figure" here. ... Urantia book?

And that's right.

Gratitude, providence are what I am meditating about nowadays.

[DCrown]

I'm afraid it's not as easy. DCrown has a valid point. How will people be able to avoid AI output? I'm one of them. I simply don't want to consume AI generated stuff.

The only valid option remaining is to turn off the internet now. Even years old songs might be improved by AI already. AI has long arrived. And it will stay.

And i have to disagree. DCrown has not a single valid point. All he has is his big hate against AI and a bunch of strawmen and cherrypicked examples. Assuming that every musician has to win the super bowl first before he is allowed to release a song is behind craziness. It shows the lack of any common sense. And that he starts to flame people shows that he has run out of arguments.

How to improve old songs?
I mean it is almost funny to see that main focus seems to be on mixing quality today.
Re-mastering is not a new thing. Re-mastered by AI, well, ok, I see.
Is re-mastering making it better?
For me it is about the song, arrangement, lyrics, sometimes virtuosity.
Or do you mean ai could also improve lyrics?, for example a new refrain "love ai, fake's a star"
instead of "Ob-la-di, ob-la-da", I agree , cuz I never understood the meaning of Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, makes sense.

My view on re-mastering, ok, why not, the re-mastered version of Sign Of the Times album I don't prefer over the original version, though.
The sound of the album is considered rather mediocre, but it is full of Prince's best songs and some songs need a little dirt imo. The reason for the mediocre quality is not recording engineer Dr. Susan Rogers, Prince just tracked, recorded and pre-mixed the whole double album super fast in a time he was a lil depressed and faced with a completely new band after he broke with The Revolution.

I would say re-mastering is not always in favor of a song or album, but it can.

And posting from your comfort zone sourrounded by a music production community (with exceptions !)that prefers quantity over quality, laziness over hard work.

Yes, not long ago it was about competition, before the market was not oversaturated it and the level of creative music a thousand times higher it made sense and it was a tradition from Bach, Liszt, Theloniuos Monk (he won so many competitions) ...to... The Beatles vs The Stones, MJ vs Prince.
Today it doesn't makes sense, a hard working talented musician vs ai fake artist. I am sure young generation likes it, ok.
It is the same nonsense that happened at the Olympics in Paris, when a man won boxing competition against women, they let him join, you know the whole new gender thing, and the man just wanted to be considered a wmn, cuz this nonsense is possible today.

Win the super bowl? haha who said such nonsense. Most so called music producers wouldn't be even able to meet minimum requirement and wouldn't find a g-note on a keyboard and wouldn't know what an oboe looks or sounds like or ask them to play a E 6/9 chord or let some singers sing without autotune, too many examples.

Not even minimum requirement, what a shame, and they call themselves music producers.
Yes, qualification and separation of music productions , not just genres, is very important, otherwise it is just nonsense.

Same nonsense like I would be together with Herbie Hancock or Stevie Wonder on one stage, hell no, that's not the place I should be allowed to be, still would need some practising.

[Tiles]

How to improve old songs?

By using all the possibilities AI can offer, it is not limited to throwing a prompt at an AI and getting an arbitrary song back. It is much more than that by now and offers the same creativity and possibilities as the traditional analog or digital way. It is up to you how creative you really want to be.

You can use AI to generate a song with one click, but you can also use it for the icing. As a last step. And you can use it for all the steps in between, for example when you are bad at writing lyrics. Or bad at singing. In the traditional pipeline, you would hire a songwriter at that point. Or a singer. What is wrong with letting this part be done by an AI?

Making music was always in a range. From one click tools like Magix Music Maker up to really playing an instrument and writing your own songs from scratch. From primitive bush drums to the highly complex orchestral scores. AI just adds to that, and even offers new possibilites. It is not completely new, and it is not evil.

The interesting part for old songs is of course things like audio restoration or stem separation to redo the mix and mastering part. That way, the original song remains unaltered in its base and structure. But you can also let Suno generate a cover version, with other instruments, other vocals, and so on.

I wrote this already here, so i copy it over:

One-click generators like Suno or Udio replace the musician: you give it a prompt, lyrics or a complete song and get a complete song back, often including vocals and arrangement.

Vocal and instrument synthesis tools such as Synthesizer V or ACE Studio perform as the musician. They don’t write the song for you, but they sing or play parts you’ve composed. Not any different than a hired singer.

There’s also voice conversion / voice cloning, which lets you make an existing vocal track sound like another singer, e.g., “Frank Sinatra.” LALAL.AI Voice Cloning, Vozart.ai, etc. Or offline: RVC (Retrieval-based Voice Conversion) and sovits.

Jam and co-creation tools like Tunee (and research projects such as ReaLJam) play with the musician. They listen to what you play and respond with musical ideas, variations, or accompaniment in an interactive, human-in-the-loop way.

Composition assistants like Magenta or Hookpad help you think. They suggest melodies, harmonies, or structure, but don’t aim to produce a finished track on their own.

Audio restoration and cleanup tools (for example iZotope RX, Adobe Enhance, Acon Digital, or partially Lalal.ai) repair audio. They remove noise, clicks, distortion, or other problems from existing recordings.

Stem separation and analysis tools such as Moises, Demucs, Spleeter, or AudioJam dissect audio. They break songs into stems, detect tempo and chords, or prepare material for remixing and practice.

Mixing and mastering tools like LANDR, iZotope Ozone, or Sonible polish the result, optimizing loudness, balance, and tonal quality.

Sound design and experimental tools (for example Magenta NSynth or diffusion-based FX systems) create or transform sounds rather than songs.

And most of these possibilites can also be used to improve old songs.

Same nonsense like I would be together with Herbie Hancock or Stevie Wonder on one stage, hell no, that's not the place I should be allowed to be, still would need some practising.

Heck why not? I would enjoy that. Maybe let them even perform a hardrock gig

Evolution always builds on top of the former. And this sounds like a really creative idea.

[Grizzellda]

Alright...to sum this stuff up,

I truly, now honestly speaking here at 3 A.M. in the morning, somewhat "feeling good"...

I just do not believe that AI will replace musicians!

[DCrown]

With Hancock or Stevie Wonder on stage

Heck why not? I would enjoy that. Maybe let them even perform a hardrock gig

Evolution always builds on top of the former. And this sounds like a really creative idea.

Of course it sounds nice, I am just not in their league, though, and that's alright.
It would make me feel kinda strange if I even uploaded my music on the same platform they do, I would prefer different platforms for different levels and qualifications.

Thanks for your list of ai software and what it can do. So instead focusing on creating everything by yourself, you focus on what a software suggests or does. I see, as long as it is labeled as ai and uploaded to a plattform or category for ai productions, it is completely alright imo. I just don't get the attraction and challenge of it. As I already mentioned it is just like playing in NBA together with an assistant who shoots baskets, because you are not good at it. Just like sports music is competition and entertainment on different levels - professional, amateur etc. leagues

I obviously live in a different tradition, if I am not good at something, I can either learn it, it needs some practising or I surrender and switch to something I am talented in or I hire or try to find someone and make a collaboration.

And someone mentioned Super Bowl as qualification, I mean , most performances were playback, even MJ was lip syncing, Prince and some others were exceptions.
So Super Bowl wouldn't be a suitable place for qualification.