Tracktion's mixer controls are just as good as using a mixer. I use Reason and FL Studio and I don't feel their mixers add anything over the volume filters for each track.
The only concern I would have, and it might be a "user" error, is that when I freeze a track, it freezes all the "filters" including the volume control. Therefore I can't adjust the volume of a track when it's frozen to save CPU cycles. Can anyone else confirm this limitation or correct me?
Raymond
I hate tracktion !
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 1 Feb, 2004 from New Zealand
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- KVRAF
- 3745 posts since 29 Sep, 2002 from Killafornia
Yeah thats true. Tracktion mixes down all the frozen tracks to the same file. I find the Render track feature much more useful.RaymondHayter wrote: Therefore I can't adjust the volume of a track when it's frozen to save CPU cycles. Can anyone else confirm this limitation or correct me?
Raymond
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
that's the correct behaviour for freeze.
Tracktion's freeze could be considered to be a "deep" freeze. Everything, is frozen into one single file, which means even large edits will play fine on laptops.
The downside is that you need to unfreeze to chnage anything. Try using render instead. You can always render with effects off, leave the source track intact but muted, and re-render if needed.
Tracktion's freeze could be considered to be a "deep" freeze. Everything, is frozen into one single file, which means even large edits will play fine on laptops.
The downside is that you need to unfreeze to chnage anything. Try using render instead. You can always render with effects off, leave the source track intact but muted, and re-render if needed.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
If the effects are off, no need to render!valley wrote:You can always render with effects off, leave the source track intact but muted, and re-render if needed.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Dammit, you guys always get me on the MIDI stuff. I'm such a closed-minded audio-head sometimes. <laff>
Greg
Greg
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- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
I'm not entirely sure why you'd need a fully fledged mixer emulated entirely in software. You can apply FX, do vol/pan changes and record program changes. How are you suffering from a lack of other options at this point? The only other feature you might want are Sends...but they seem pretty redundant to me unless you work with outboard gear. And in that case, you'd have no use for a software mixer !!
Besides, Tracktion, like other sequencers, DOES mix. It mixes audio together and provides you ways of controlling and applying FX to the audio. It's not much different to something you'd find in Orion or FL. In fact, I find that any software that boasts a whizz-bang mixer, is usually fairly complex or lacks user friendliness.
Besides, Tracktion, like other sequencers, DOES mix. It mixes audio together and provides you ways of controlling and applying FX to the audio. It's not much different to something you'd find in Orion or FL. In fact, I find that any software that boasts a whizz-bang mixer, is usually fairly complex or lacks user friendliness.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRist
- 344 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from DE
Folders and native sends/returns are also my main wish. And cc envelope editing in midi clips would also be nice.ModuLR wrote:
Why label tracks in a mixer, when you can label the tracks in your edit? Why grab a mixer vol/pan, then a vol/pan sits right there on your track? Hopefully we'll get folders and what not to make oganization (and bussing) easier... but surely that's a more useful improvement than a mixer.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Often the biggest strength and the biggest weakness are the same thing, seen from a different perspective.
Anyway, a few observations:
1] Mixing a big track is tricky in Tracktion because of the Freeze issue already commented on. Rendering helps of course, but then you can't change/ramp the tempo easily without artefacts. There's definitely a trade off here, which results from the lack of seperate mixer.
2] Another problem here is that the volume/pan filter changes size as you add other filters and can get squashed out. Not sure if there is a fix for this?
3] If you have loads of tracks, you can't see the volume pan for all of them at a reasonable size, so again this can cause problems in projects with lots of tracks (e.g. more than 12)
4] The benefit of a software mixer where channels are lined up horizontally (i.e. in a row, as in other programs, rather than vertically stacked as in Tracktion) is that you can get visual feedback about relative channel settings. This in itself can be misleading however, because input levels may vary considerably, etc. In the end you need to use your ears, however the mixing features are visually presented.
5] TF Mixer seems to be a CPU hog to me, considering it is a small plug-in. And 8 channels is limiting.
6] Having a mixer emulation can focus the mind on the mixing stage. It's possible in Tracktion if you are not careful to pay too little attention to mixing.
Having said all that I'm broadly pleased that there will still be no mixer in T2. For most projects I do I would far rather enjoy the benefits of Tracktions ever-so-clear, track-based, all-in-one-view approach.
Anyway, a few observations:
1] Mixing a big track is tricky in Tracktion because of the Freeze issue already commented on. Rendering helps of course, but then you can't change/ramp the tempo easily without artefacts. There's definitely a trade off here, which results from the lack of seperate mixer.
2] Another problem here is that the volume/pan filter changes size as you add other filters and can get squashed out. Not sure if there is a fix for this?
3] If you have loads of tracks, you can't see the volume pan for all of them at a reasonable size, so again this can cause problems in projects with lots of tracks (e.g. more than 12)
4] The benefit of a software mixer where channels are lined up horizontally (i.e. in a row, as in other programs, rather than vertically stacked as in Tracktion) is that you can get visual feedback about relative channel settings. This in itself can be misleading however, because input levels may vary considerably, etc. In the end you need to use your ears, however the mixing features are visually presented.
5] TF Mixer seems to be a CPU hog to me, considering it is a small plug-in. And 8 channels is limiting.
6] Having a mixer emulation can focus the mind on the mixing stage. It's possible in Tracktion if you are not careful to pay too little attention to mixing.
Having said all that I'm broadly pleased that there will still be no mixer in T2. For most projects I do I would far rather enjoy the benefits of Tracktions ever-so-clear, track-based, all-in-one-view approach.
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
i'd sooner say that this is a result of the freeze operation also 'freezing in' the volume/pan filter.There's definitely a trade off here, which results from the lack of seperate mixer.
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- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
Freeze has to include the volume/pan because all the tracks are being mixed down into one single file. If they were being individually frozen, then a pan filter might make sense, but you'd lose some of the performance gains of the current freeze method.
Maybe the freeze behavior could be configurable in T3?
Maybe the freeze behavior could be configurable in T3?
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
That has nothing to do with a mixer, and even with a mixer, Tracktion's freeze, as-is, would behave the same way (you'd just have greyed out mixer channels).headquest wrote:1] Mixing a big track is tricky in Tracktion because of the Freeze issue already commented on. Rendering helps of course, but then you can't change/ramp the tempo easily without artefacts. There's definitely a trade off here, which results from the lack of seperate mixer.
Nope, although it has been asked for. Buy a control surface.2] Another problem here is that the volume/pan filter changes size as you add other filters and can get squashed out. Not sure if there is a fix for this?
There is an F key (can;t remember, too early, but probably F8) shortcut to pack all tracks on screen.3] If you have loads of tracks, you can't see the volume pan for all of them at a reasonable size, so again this can cause problems in projects with lots of tracks (e.g. more than 12)
I dunno. I tend to find Tracktion encourages me to mix as I write, which helps me a lot. I think this is a personal preference thing, TBH.6] Having a mixer emulation can focus the mind on the mixing stage. It's possible in Tracktion if you are not careful to pay too little attention to mixing.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Depends on how the freeze is implemented. For example in Audition you can "lock" effects in place which freezes them, but you can still adjust levels/mix.valley wrote: That has nothing to do with a mixer, and even with a mixer, Tracktion's freeze, as-is, would behave the same way (you'd just have greyed out mixer channels).
Having said that I do like Tracktions freeze A LOT - in fact it's one of the main reasons I use Tracktion. So in terms of "win some, lose some" I have no issue here - keep it as it is!
Nope, although it has been asked for. Buy a control surface.
2] Another problem here is that the volume/pan filter changes size as you add other filters and can get squashed out. Not sure if there is a fix for this?
The forthcoming M-Audio Ozonic looks very tempting - a firewire audio interface/MIDI keyboard/Control surface all in one. Oooo
Mixing as you go is good up to apoint, but I still find that I need to concentrate on the mix stage once all the tracks are basically done and in place.I dunno. I tend to find Tracktion encourages me to mix as I write, which helps me a lot. I think this is a personal preference thing, TBH.
I actually like doing this in Tracktion too, but I do think that its at this stage where an optional mixer could be useful if it could be opened in the lower part of the screen.
Tracktion is my favourite program for music production, and is as near perfect as any software I know. You can call me a fan if you like
. But I do still enjoy mixing in other programs when the oportunity arises 
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- KVRian
- 974 posts since 10 May, 2003
F*ck yeah!!Beno wrote:I'm 100%!woolyloach wrote: I'm about 99% certain that the "no mixer" paradigm is going to persist into T2.
Ben
Buy Darling Sister's new album "Rise and fall" now! Just send a pm or an email. Visit our myspace page on www.myspace.com/darlingsister for songsamples.