Hey, MuTools. (Why isn't MuLab more popular?)
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- KVRAF
- 3145 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
All your assumptions are incorrect. You are simply trolling the forum in the form I stated, end of.
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- KVRAF
- 3145 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
The fact that you have incited negative responses is proof enough. I will not rise to it.
Last edited by sl23 on Fri Feb 27, 2026 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
ackchyually that negative response is a you thing (problem?). and again youre welcome to your misguided opinion. hey does that mean i dont need to listen to your advice? it sure does. but i never felt confused regarding this. later!
oh now you decided not to block me? i thought i was free of your advice. just ignore what i say if you dont handle ackchyuality well
oh now you decided not to block me? i thought i was free of your advice. just ignore what i say if you dont handle ackchyuality well
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRAF
- 13861 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
solipsvs, i would appreciate if you chill down as you're causing bad vibes. I thank you for your opinions on topic. No need to fight.
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- KVRist
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
jo, im not fighting. all your grown children are having a fit when i say anything at all. but if you will only take their side and blame me for what idiots actually do then it seems you have chosen. good luck restricting your user base to idiots jo. thats gonna be a problem in the real world. it makes you look like an idiot too!. as you wish. may your ship stay afloat and get anywhere with so many whiny children. you poor man. you know idiots will keep you from 'popularity' and force you to capsize. so i do not expect to see you go anywhere beyond this right here. this is it jo!
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRAF
- 13861 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
It's a pity that you don't see the issue with your posts because i appreciate your opinions but i can't accept how you're communicating your opinions. If you can't moderate yourself and continue being aggressive and insulting then please stay away. I write this with a bit of sadness.
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- KVRist
- 55 posts since 26 Feb, 2024
I watched Billy Hume "live" working on a track with "Bone Crusher". Two old friends doing something fun. I'm pretty sure Billy uses Ableton. For the time I watched, most of what he did was pretty typical stuff. But it was strange for me to see someone else operating a DAW, in real practice.
Sometimes, I do sessions kinda similar to that. What caught my eye, was things you don't realize could probably be more streamlined. It wasn't that Ableton was slowing him down, but some DAWs would have. You could see that it is "still" awkward and alien, to operate a DAW and be the musician. It is way more natural looking, to just engineer for someone else's work. Watching him transition from engineer (kinda producer) to engineer (kinda producer) and recording artist, made me realize what it must look like when I'm working.
Having gotten used to it, myself, I don't notice it anymore. It was just a reminder, of how much a pain it really can be. Although, it is still mostly fun. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done about it, outside of adding external tech to the DAW. Like foot switches to control the DAW operators, over midi or something. But that would only help a little. I'm absolutely against touch screen tools, but I can totally see the appeal ( err mouse pointer and shortcut, now where was I? ).
All of that aside, I'd liked to have seen MuLab being used like that. I'm weird that way, but a I think a lot of insight is gained by seeing how others use things.
For example, why do they keep going though extra steps, when the DAW provides a faster solution? That may just be how that user works ( previous software muscle memory ). Or, is it that the way the feature is available just doesn't align, with how some people think. I guess emotional, sentimental, or traditional flow? Your work/art can evolve into a mold, you can't get out of.
There is something similar in programming languages. Some people really like Lisp. There are some that argue that Lisp is structured in a way that a human brains feel more comfortable with, but has nothing to do with how the bare-metal machine underneath actually works. C structured languages often provide the example alternative.
I'm not suggesting we all upload videos, showing the way we operate differently. But if I had access, to that kinda media, I'd be pretty compelled to watch it. I think that kinda data is useful, just very hard to come by.
I don't know if this is resonating with anyone. Its just the idea of watching different people doing something basic, like vocal stacking, intrigues me. Usually, myself, I just focus on the task and some taste/technique. As boring as it may sound, I'd like to see the less cerebral part. Watching people good at what they do, fumbling about with no realization of their flow/habit ( locked into the zone or mind space ).
Thinking about how much physiological research Microsoft put into the Windows 95 UI, it dawns on me that when doing office, image, research, etc., on a device (standard UIs), it is usually very natural and fluid. Part of Microsoft's design involved keeping office workers focused on work. Not because all by just making them more efficient, but because it exploited human psychology. So don't think efficient, think manipulated train of thought; kinda like Facebook or its more modern counterparts.
For me, I broke away from the UI mainstream. I have a wallpapper and " ctrl + alt + enter " to open a terminal emulator. That is it. After years of using my device(s) this way I've noticed that I visualize my pattern of attack "WAY" different, than I did back in the days of "Start Menus" and "Icons". I certainly don't think I'd want to use a DAW quite that way; however it isn't as hard as you might think. My choice in MuLab "does" aligns more with that methodology.
So, you have competing demands, from differing psychology. I think MuLab is heading a good direction, for pleasing many. But when I think about one of the overall goals, of Windows 95 (user-centered design to reduce cognitive load), I can't help but get lost by questions like "Centered on who's cognitive load?" and "How do you make things fluid, with the way those users 'actually' think and perform (rather than funneling them where you need them to be)?".
I don't know? Maybe a guitar player shouldn't be his own studio engineer, without expecting to take the trade-offs of having to accept more "cognitive load". Thinking back to Billy Hume, I feel confident in saying that his "inspired guitar playing" was hindered by the process. There seemed to be a creativity limit that he could not pass, while using his brain differently than his creativity neural pathways "for guitar" require (think Van Halen, Right Now - lyrics). I don't know him enough to fairly say that. But he is a musician, and I know myself enough to recognize that truth in him. He was having fun with a friend, and still doing a pretty good job. That aside, here it is "Have we reached the limit of the DAW UI/Human intergration; without adding brain interface chips, pedals switches, and kitchen sinks?
I totally believe the DAW you use can alter your creative behavior; like Win95 keeping you focused on office work, or social media keeping you from being productive. It isn't gonna make a good engineer suck, or a bad musician talented. But there are all kinds of "nerd" blogs out there, trying to imagine what UIs would look like today, had Windows 95 never happened. My experience, of breaking away from common desktop interfacing, leads me to believe there is growth in building your own structure. Obviously, for productivity, there needs to be a line. Maybe we are at that line? If not, despite how many of us may feel about Windows 95, it "did" change the way all of us exist today; even those who never used it.
Off topic, but If you really want a kick, imagine what the "new" modern UIs are doing to people. They weren't always smart phones.... not until they made us un-intuitive and narrow minded, by habit. After wining that battle, they've now earned the title.
Sometimes, I do sessions kinda similar to that. What caught my eye, was things you don't realize could probably be more streamlined. It wasn't that Ableton was slowing him down, but some DAWs would have. You could see that it is "still" awkward and alien, to operate a DAW and be the musician. It is way more natural looking, to just engineer for someone else's work. Watching him transition from engineer (kinda producer) to engineer (kinda producer) and recording artist, made me realize what it must look like when I'm working.
Having gotten used to it, myself, I don't notice it anymore. It was just a reminder, of how much a pain it really can be. Although, it is still mostly fun. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done about it, outside of adding external tech to the DAW. Like foot switches to control the DAW operators, over midi or something. But that would only help a little. I'm absolutely against touch screen tools, but I can totally see the appeal ( err mouse pointer and shortcut, now where was I? ).
All of that aside, I'd liked to have seen MuLab being used like that. I'm weird that way, but a I think a lot of insight is gained by seeing how others use things.
For example, why do they keep going though extra steps, when the DAW provides a faster solution? That may just be how that user works ( previous software muscle memory ). Or, is it that the way the feature is available just doesn't align, with how some people think. I guess emotional, sentimental, or traditional flow? Your work/art can evolve into a mold, you can't get out of.
There is something similar in programming languages. Some people really like Lisp. There are some that argue that Lisp is structured in a way that a human brains feel more comfortable with, but has nothing to do with how the bare-metal machine underneath actually works. C structured languages often provide the example alternative.
I'm not suggesting we all upload videos, showing the way we operate differently. But if I had access, to that kinda media, I'd be pretty compelled to watch it. I think that kinda data is useful, just very hard to come by.
I don't know if this is resonating with anyone. Its just the idea of watching different people doing something basic, like vocal stacking, intrigues me. Usually, myself, I just focus on the task and some taste/technique. As boring as it may sound, I'd like to see the less cerebral part. Watching people good at what they do, fumbling about with no realization of their flow/habit ( locked into the zone or mind space ).
Thinking about how much physiological research Microsoft put into the Windows 95 UI, it dawns on me that when doing office, image, research, etc., on a device (standard UIs), it is usually very natural and fluid. Part of Microsoft's design involved keeping office workers focused on work. Not because all by just making them more efficient, but because it exploited human psychology. So don't think efficient, think manipulated train of thought; kinda like Facebook or its more modern counterparts.
For me, I broke away from the UI mainstream. I have a wallpapper and " ctrl + alt + enter " to open a terminal emulator. That is it. After years of using my device(s) this way I've noticed that I visualize my pattern of attack "WAY" different, than I did back in the days of "Start Menus" and "Icons". I certainly don't think I'd want to use a DAW quite that way; however it isn't as hard as you might think. My choice in MuLab "does" aligns more with that methodology.
So, you have competing demands, from differing psychology. I think MuLab is heading a good direction, for pleasing many. But when I think about one of the overall goals, of Windows 95 (user-centered design to reduce cognitive load), I can't help but get lost by questions like "Centered on who's cognitive load?" and "How do you make things fluid, with the way those users 'actually' think and perform (rather than funneling them where you need them to be)?".
I don't know? Maybe a guitar player shouldn't be his own studio engineer, without expecting to take the trade-offs of having to accept more "cognitive load". Thinking back to Billy Hume, I feel confident in saying that his "inspired guitar playing" was hindered by the process. There seemed to be a creativity limit that he could not pass, while using his brain differently than his creativity neural pathways "for guitar" require (think Van Halen, Right Now - lyrics). I don't know him enough to fairly say that. But he is a musician, and I know myself enough to recognize that truth in him. He was having fun with a friend, and still doing a pretty good job. That aside, here it is "Have we reached the limit of the DAW UI/Human intergration; without adding brain interface chips, pedals switches, and kitchen sinks?
I totally believe the DAW you use can alter your creative behavior; like Win95 keeping you focused on office work, or social media keeping you from being productive. It isn't gonna make a good engineer suck, or a bad musician talented. But there are all kinds of "nerd" blogs out there, trying to imagine what UIs would look like today, had Windows 95 never happened. My experience, of breaking away from common desktop interfacing, leads me to believe there is growth in building your own structure. Obviously, for productivity, there needs to be a line. Maybe we are at that line? If not, despite how many of us may feel about Windows 95, it "did" change the way all of us exist today; even those who never used it.
Off topic, but If you really want a kick, imagine what the "new" modern UIs are doing to people. They weren't always smart phones.... not until they made us un-intuitive and narrow minded, by habit. After wining that battle, they've now earned the title.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
Hey solipsvs, not trying to make a caricature of your views or any thing like that. You are suggesting trade shows and Instagram, cool ideas. Instagram seems reasonable, but I think it takes money and resources to get into a trade show.
NAMM just happened, right? Big platform in California for music equipment & software folks to demo their latest stuff. It would be super cool for Jo to have a booth there, maybe it will happen, and I would like to understand more about how that could happen.
NAMM just happened, right? Big platform in California for music equipment & software folks to demo their latest stuff. It would be super cool for Jo to have a booth there, maybe it will happen, and I would like to understand more about how that could happen.
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- KVRAF
- 3145 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
That would be a great idea, mutools at NAMM! Perhaps Jo should start saving, and do a kickstarter type thing to get funding for it!
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
Yeah, I get it...having a booth at a NAMM event suggests, some sort of success, or that your company is "like valid", or something.
I feel this could actually happen, but it won't be quick, but it could be cool. The first thing to do would prolly be to analyze other small companies that are already succeeding here, in this type of modern business "space"...learn from them!!!
I feel this could actually happen, but it won't be quick, but it could be cool. The first thing to do would prolly be to analyze other small companies that are already succeeding here, in this type of modern business "space"...learn from them!!!
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- KVRAF
- 3145 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Yeah sounds good. I have no idea with all that tho, but I do think this is something feasible for Jo.
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- KVRAF
- 8489 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui
It’s easy to get into NAMM, just need the money to pay for whatever. Not sure it would help MuLab, but it couldn’t hurt for sure.
My friend works for Roland, she’s a big force at NAMM.
My friend works for Roland, she’s a big force at NAMM.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
Thanx for the input. Do you have an idea of how much money, and where would it go? Like, what sort of "fees"?
Also, I really think it could make a substantial lift for MuLab, but only if there is some support along with that. That could likely be where some of us here might help. Real users who have some experience with the product and company, willing to endorse, talk to other "interested parties", kinda thing?
Also, I really think it could make a substantial lift for MuLab, but only if there is some support along with that. That could likely be where some of us here might help. Real users who have some experience with the product and company, willing to endorse, talk to other "interested parties", kinda thing?