Native Instruments file for insolvency...

[Sascha Franck]

I know SLATE+ASH is working on an in-house solution to dump Kontakt. I would imagine at least a few others are doing the same.

Absolutely. Quite some actually do already (and since quite a while already, East West possibly being a good example).
And because of the current drama, they will be alarmed and possibly rather keep developing their inhouse solutions rather than betting their money on a new Kontakt owner (whomever that might be) that they still had no control over.

East West, Spitfire (even if not too successful yet), 8Dio, Musio (part of Cinesamples), Orchestral Tools, etc. - they're all on their own players already, at least partially.

Any company purchasing the Kontakt IP would have to have an extremely trustworthy reputation for those vendors to be interested. They might as well still support Kontakt for a while but continue to bring their inhouse solution into shape and then get rid of the Kontakt format at one point in time.
This is very certainly what I'd do if I was a sample library developer.

[stratology]

There is no slave labour at Apple.

"Apple has faced repeated accusations and lawsuits linking its supply chain to forced labor, particularly concerning the Uyghur minority in China and mineral mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Investigative reports have documented connections to companies involved in alleged forced labor programs.

Multiple investigative reports by organizations such as the Tech Transparency Project and the
Australian Strategic Policy Institute have linked several Apple suppliers to state-sponsored "labor transfer" programs involving Uyghur Muslims and other ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region of China. The U.S. government has labeled the treatment of the Uyghur people as genocide, and the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA) now presumes goods from the region are made with forced labor unless proven otherwise.

Apple and other tech companies have been named in lawsuits by advocacy groups, such as
International Rights Advocates, alleging the use of minerals (cobalt, tin, tantalum, and tungsten) sourced from mines in the DRC that rely on hazardous child and forced labor.

Apple employees in the USA have raised numerous complaints regarding workplace discrimination, sexual harassment, pay inequity, and retaliation, largely organized under the #AppleToo movement. Major issues include allegations of a hostile work environment, surveillance of employee communication, and suppression of unionization efforts, resulting in multiple National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) complaints and lawsuits, including class actions over gender pay gaps, reports Business and Human Rights Centre and Cohen Milstein".

Is Apple alone in their abuse of labor? No, of course not but that does not excuse them.

Do I own any Apple products? No. Do I own electronic goods that are probably linked to the abuses listed above? Probably. List the alternatives or your solutions to the problem.

Anyway you are right this off topic in a thread that is nothing more than speculation but sometimes the record needs to be set straight. I'll say no more on the subject.

You're at the same time making really good points, and mixing up unrelated things.

There are issues with workplace harassment and sexism at every major company. Apple is, again, one of the better ones, according to feedback from employees on sites like Glasshouse.

Then there is the, entirely different, supply chain issue. These involve, as you point out, real, serious abuses.
For people in the west, for human rights organizations, it is hard to go after the companies that are the abusers. It's easier to go after their customers.

The bottom line is that if we look at what realistically can be done is that major companies like Apple can exert pressure on their suppliers, bind them in contracts, in an attempt to minimize abuse. Which is exactly what Apple is doing.

And, to summarize the hypocrisy on a more cynical note: Apple bashing is so popular that people can come to a thread about Native Instruments and bring it on.
Coming to an NI thread to complain about the actual companies that do human rights abuses, like Foxconn, would look rather weird.

[stratology]

When Jobs first saw an experimental computer with a Graphical User Interface, he immediately recognized the potential, licensed the tech and hired key engineers that were involved in the original design.

I know its pedantic but...It wasn't an experimental computer - it was a soon to be released commercial product from Xerox, he didn't license anything, he copied it, but as Picasso said "Genius is theft", I'm not aware of Apple hiring any of the ParcPlace engineers (where this all got invented), but they may have, Palo Alto is just down the road from Apples HQ. (Parc is an acronym - Palo Alto Research Centre - owned and run by Xerox)

Pedantic is good. The Alto shipped, but Xerox only shipped 120 units. So I would argue calling it experimental is justified.

Jobs paid Xerox stock options just to be allowed to look at the computer.

One of several engineers who moved from Xerox to Apple is Larry Tesler. He invented cut, copy and paste. He invented the first object oriented programming language. He invented the first word processor with a GUI.

There are many interesting stories about the developments at PARC - including that Xerox management thought that using a device called a "mouse" with a computer was just too weird.

[Funky40]

There are many interesting stories ............ - including that Xerox management thought ...........

ohh look, we are on topic again.
Keyword: management decissions.


NI has been destroyed by the man who wanted to make it big AND finally made it big. That`s to me the Mate Galic guy. But might just be a stupid assessment from my side.


Then money went more and more into the hands of those who decide but don`t produce anything. At least -again- that`s how i see the whole case.


That said trusty buyer from within the music biz would be Yamaha, no ? Any other ? i see no.


The question towards any possible buyer is:
"for how many cents on the dollar ?"


my personal guess is that even 30cents on the $ looks VERY optimistic.


There is no itelligent manager who would offer much more. That`s my personal picture. More likely even quite a bit less......to make it become -realisticly- interesting.

[SLiC]

The liquidator will sell the assets/IP for whatever they can get, but the key pint is 'someone' will ending up owning NI software/hardware, so it will continue in some form.

[digitalboytn]

The liquidator will sell the assets/IP for whatever they can get, but the key pint is 'someone' will ending up owning NI software/hardware, so it will continue in some form.

This is what is going to happen...

Well....the key "points" anyway....

Everything else is just wild speculation

[ksandvik]

Yes, it's stupid to liquidate good products with paying customers....

[Teksonik]

And, to summarize the hypocrisy on a more cynical note: Apple bashing is so popular that people can come to a thread about Native Instruments and bring it on.

I didn't start the "Apple bashing", I just countered your incorrect statement with facts. Like:

Glassdoor reviews are generally reliable for gauging company culture, but they are not infallible and should not be used as the sole source for career decisions. They are useful for spotting trends, but are often skewed towards extreme positive/negative experiences, include fake reviews, or have been impacted by incentivized positive feedback.

Getting triggered and going full White Knight mode in defense of Apple in this thread is no less weird. But you do you.

We could easily end it here.

[234north]

And, to summarize the hypocrisy on a more cynical note: Apple bashing is so popular that people can come to a thread about Native Instruments and bring it on.

I didn't start the "Apple bashing", I just countered your incorrect statement with facts. Like:

Glassdoor reviews are generally reliable for gauging company culture, but they are not infallible and should not be used as the sole source for career decisions. They are useful for spotting trends, but are often skewed towards extreme positive/negative experiences, include fake reviews, or have been impacted by incentivized positive feedback.

Getting triggered and going full White Knight mode in defense of Apple in this thread is no less weird. But you do you.

We could easily end it here.

So you're saying Apple itself is using "slave labor"? That's hilarious Stratology was making a point of Apple vs. Apple supply chain companies. Those are not Apple employees. And to single out Apple, as is always in fashion around here, is ridiculous. That isn't "white knighting", that is just the plain truth.

[234north]

Dude you're trying too hard. That plethora of vendors is why someone buying Kontakt in some fashion (whether that's buying NI outright or whatever) will happen. It's a core piece of many businesses, too important to let rot on the vine.

You completely ignore that we're talking substancial $$$ here. Name an example of a company who should buy the Kontakt IP for a sufficient amount of money. A company with enough trust for the sample library vendors to believe in their success that is.

I'm not ignoring anything and I'm not sure how you think you know what I'm thinking.

To answer your question: Apple for one. They could easily buy NI as a whole. Someone already pointed out Yamaha. For Kontakt in particular? Arturia. Jesus the list is huge. That you are arguing against any of this and seemingly that it is impossible for Kontakt to survive is bizarre at the least.

But even if it doesn't? The world will keep spinning, people will keep making music, and we'll all move on.

[Teksonik]

So you're saying Apple itself is using "slave labor"?

No, I'm not saying it:

"Apple has faced repeated accusations and lawsuits linking its supply chain to forced labor, particularly concerning the Uyghur minority in China and mineral mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Investigative reports have documented connections to companies involved in alleged forced labor programs".

That's hilarious Stratology was making a point of Apple vs. Apple supply chain companies. Those are not Apple employees.

Yeah forced labor is hilarious isn't it? As long as it's not you being forced right? To say they're not Apple employees is just plain ignorant and excuses nothing.

And to single out Apple, as is always in fashion around here, is ridiculous. That isn't "white knighting", that is just the plain truth.

What's ridiculous is you getting triggered like a snowflake. I don't hate Apple any more than I hate every other major corporation that is abusing the working class and the planet in the never ending lust for more and more profits.

Anyway I'm done with it...I can no longer justify engaging in a battle of wits with those who are so clearly unarmed. Enjoy being a sycophant.

[stratology]

Getting triggered and going full White Knight mode in defense of Apple in this thread is no less weird. But you do you.

Adding context and actual facts, trying to offer a differentiated perspective instead of uninformed bashing is White Night mode? Ah, ok.


Now, regarding defending Apple: Apple has for years promoted an image of being the 'good guys': tolerant, ethical, diverse.
That explains why some people hold them accountable for the actions of 3rd parties, and hold them to higher standards than other companies that don't pretend to have any ethical standards.


But, just within the last year, Tim Cook has completely undermined this previous, carefully crafted perception with his political actions. My opinion is that his actions work against the interests of the company, shareholders and employees. Brand perception is important, and, IMHO, Tim Cook has completely undermined Apple's credibility. He permanently and irreparably damaged their reputation.

Their products are still good, but what Apple stands for today is spinelessness and corruption.

[stratology]

To answer your question: Apple for one. They could easily buy NI as a whole.

This very nicely circles around to bring things back on topic.

For Apple, and possibly other companies, to acquire a company, that company has to offer something unique. For Apple, that is more often developer talent than actual products.

Apple already has a sampler, DAW, lots of good plugins, etc. So there is no incentive at all to buy Native Instruments. When Apple has purchased plugin companies in the past, they integrated the plugins into Logic afterwards. They never started releasing dedicated soft synths or other Audio Units.

For potential buyers, the NI products need to offer a serious value proposition. Product evaluation would have to consider what a future possible release would look like - meaning: Kontakt, for example, has forever ignored basic user interface standards, they tried and failed to implement things that are basics across the industry, like UI resizing, things you find in every modern plugin. The Kontakt UI is a mess, the Kontakt file browser is a mess.

So the amount of work that would have to go into it to make it into a new product that is good in terms of usability, not just features, is a calculation that prospective buyers will have to consider.

[ksandvik]

Yes Apple could buy by today just any company, but it does not mean it's in their interest. Supporting non-Apple platforms, for example, is a non-starter.

[IvyBirds]

For potential buyers, the NI products need to offer a serious value proposition. Product evaluation would have to consider what a future possible release would look like - meaning: Kontakt, for example, has forever ignored basic user interface standards, they tried and failed to implement things that are basics across the industry, like UI resizing, things you find in every modern plugin. The Kontakt UI is a mess, the Kontakt file browser is a mess.

Yamaha/Steinberg, Spectrasonics, UVI and others could buy the IP for Kontact and then roll it into their existing sample based products and then kill off Kontact

Once they have the IP they can simply write a translation program that allows users to load the current encrypted Kontact libraries into HALion, Falcon, Omnisphere or whatever

Once you can load Kontact Libraries into their existing sampler they can just abandon Kontact entirely