Mu-Drum feature requests

[tiger001]

this goes way beyond programming a TR909 or RD9 flam or choke (group) on any other drum machine
on the SP1200 it is simply a matter of assigning to the same output ch, as no two sounds can output from the same jack

i do like very much the idea of being able to flam with a different sound, that opens possibilities!

[VariKusBrainZ]

this goes way beyond programming a TR909 or RD9 flam or choke (group) on any other drum machine
on the SP1200 it is simply a matter of assigning to the same output ch, as no two sounds can output from the same jack

i do like very much the idea of being able to flam with a different sound, that opens possibilities!

Surely you have to set which gets priority

[MuTools]

About drum note choking:
The reason why choking has not (yet) been implemented is this reasoning:
If it's about ending a drum note A when another drum note B in the same choke group happens, then you can simply draw drum note A shorter so it ends when drum note B starts. In other words, you have full control over the drum note length in the sequence editor so what would be the added value of such choke feature?
Possibly i'm asking a stupid question.

[sl23]

Simple answer... When using a midi controller like an mpc. If you create a 16 bar loop via finger drumming, maybe with several drum parts: kick, snare, hats, etc, you don't Want to stop to go into Sequencer to edit notes and doing so after with that many notes is a fair amount of work. Work that can and should be avoided by something just about every drum Sequencer ever made has built in, least every instrument I've had had that functionality. It's standard practice, like velocity. I mean, you could argue that you shouldn't support velocity or aftertouch for the same reason, but would you want to manually edit that in the Sequencer?

Just an example to explain. Hope that didn't come across the wrong way!

[Bax9]

Simple answer... When using a midi controller like an mpc. If you create a 16 bar loop via finger drumming, maybe with several drum parts: kick, snare, hats, etc, you don't Want to stop to go into Sequencer to edit notes and doing so after with that many notes is a fair amount of work. Work that can and should be avoided by something just about every drum Sequencer ever made has built in, least every instrument I've had had that functionality. It's standard practice, like velocity. I mean, you could argue that you shouldn't support velocity or aftertouch for the same reason, but would you want to manually edit that in the Sequencer?

Just an example to explain. Hope that didn't come across the wrong way!

I agree
speaking as a drummer, the concept of open/closed Hi Hat is obviously binary and in all electronic drums the choke is a consolidated concept that makes drumming more natural
also, the open hi hat should have a minimum release so it is quite impossible to program the sustain

[pljones]

Uh, speaking as a drummer, the hi hat pedal very much is not binary. There's some beautiful effects you get as you close the pedal down with the cymbals ringing... (Yes, fancy CC4 cross-fades with choking can come close but...) And even in electronic drums, it's definitely not binary: pedal position matters. More closed strikes should choke more open strikes, no matter how closed or open the pedal is. (I allow, when I'm mapping, that, within the most closed groups, there's no extra choking required as the samples are short enough it sounds okay.)

[Bax9]

Ok ok let me explain better

There are thousand nuances in using a hi-hat, although in electro music (generally) it makes no sense to imitate them.
To simplify, let's say that the hi-hat basically cannot be opened and closed at the same time.

It would be a Schroedinger's cat

[MuTools]

Simple answer... When using a midi controller like an mpc. If you create a 16 bar loop via finger drumming, maybe with several drum parts: kick, snare, hats, etc, you don't Want to stop to go into Sequencer to edit notes and doing so after with that many notes is a fair amount of work.

Thx for your reply.

I don't have an mpc so i can't test it, so these questions:
Lets say we have a mpc drum pad with a long sound, eg. a long open hat or cymbal.
I imagine that tapping such mpc drum pad makes a full length sound until the very last audio sample of that sound even when the tap was just a short tap. So how does that translate into MIDI note on and offs? Surely the note on is sent upon the tap but when is the note off for the long sound sent out? Is it upon releasing the tap, which means that it would be very short after the note on? Or does the mpc send out the note off when the full audio sample has been played? Or does the mpc simply not send note offs?
I'm not yet talking about choking, just tapping a single mpc pad with a long sound.

Work that can and should be avoided by something just about every drum Sequencer ever made has built in, least every instrument I've had had that functionality. It's standard practice, like velocity. I mean, you could argue that you shouldn't support velocity or aftertouch for the same reason, but would you want to manually edit that in the Sequencer?

To avoid misunderstanding: I'm not arguing against choke functionality, i'm just trying to understand it in todays context. I don't want to implement things blindly. That's why i'm asking questions, even with the risk i'm asking stupid questions.

[tiger001]

this goes way beyond programming a TR909 or RD9 flam or choke (group) on any other drum machine
on the SP1200 it is simply a matter of assigning to the same output ch, as no two sounds can output from the same jack

i do like very much the idea of being able to flam with a different sound, that opens possibilities!

Surely you have to set which gets priority

no, it is really that simple: no two sounds from the same output.

[tiger001]

About drum note choking:
The reason why choking has not (yet) been implemented is this reasoning:
If it's about ending a drum note A when another drum note B in the same choke group happens, then you can simply draw drum note A shorter so it ends when drum note B starts. In other words, you have full control over the drum note length in the sequence editor so what would be the added value of such choke feature?
Possibly i'm asking a stupid question.

i'm not drawing notes, i'm hitting a drum
(or playing pads or keys)

[Bax9]

I imagine that all hi-hat samples in drum machines produce a monophonic sound, so the second hit silences the previous one, which also happens to a certain extent in reality.
This is especially true for the open hi-hat.
So I imagine that by assigning a choke as an additional parameter, all sounds with the choke activated would be monophonic and automatically mute each other.
This does not exclude that I can set a long release on the open hi-hat, the moment a choke occurs the sound must cut off.

[tiger001]

I don't have an mpc so i can't test it, so these questions:
Lets say we have a mpc drum pad with a long sound, eg. a long open hat or cymbal.
I imagine that tapping such mpc drum pad makes a full length sound until the very last audio sample of that sound even when the tap was just a short tap. So how does that translate into MIDI note on and offs? Surely the note on is sent upon the tap but when is the note off for the long sound sent out? Is it upon releasing the tap, which means that it would be very short after the note on? Or does the mpc send out the note off when the full audio sample has been played? Or does the mpc simply not send note offs?
I'm not yet talking about choking, just tapping a single mpc pad with a long sound.

90% of the time my notes are gated, so the long(er) you push the pad, the longer it sounds

when the sound is programmed as AS SAMPLE (one shot) it depends A/ polyphony (of 1 cannot have more than 1 sound at the same time= monophonic) or (same) choke/mute group member (will cause first sound to stop) in case there's polyphony of >1 - otherwise sounds will sustain/release as long as there's voices assigned to the PROGRAM (and their programming/length allows)

so one shot doesn't know note-off's (in fact, this is one of the "minor" issues with the SP1200)

[MuTools]

If MIDI drum pads are gated, i.e. they send note on on pad down and note off on pad up, then i don't see the real need for a choke feature on DAW side. To avoid confusion: I'm just brainstorming and trying to understand the effective need / benefit.

[MuTools]

Brainstorming further:
A drum pad with some long sounds like open hats, rides, cymbals, ... typically have a long release time so that even if the drum pad is tapped shortly the sound is played (almost) full length.
Now imagine we have choke groups in MuDrum and we have closed hat and open hat on same choke group. Then when the open hat pad is tapped shortly, thx to the long release time the open hat is played full length. But even when the closed hat is tapped and the choke feature sends out a note off for the open hat, the open hat will have a long release... And when i set the release time of the open hat to say 50 ms then i can use the pad note length to implicitly realize the choking. So that's where i wonder what the benefit of the choke is. I'm most probably missing something, so please clarify it to me.

[bibz1st]

It would be a Schroedinger's cat

'Schroedingers hat' haha