Your Thoughts on Reference Tracks?

[multree]

I started using reference tracks only recently and despite using room correction software when using speakers or calibration and crossfeed simulation when using headphones I still mix my stuff too dark and low end heavy. it’s getting better though.

I choose my reference tracks based on what I like (style and OR soundwise)

[Hipster Bales]

I'm embarking on full production of a new song, after having recently watched Mastering.com's Radio Ready Single event. That presentation got me thinking about reference tracks, something I've really never used, so I thought I'd solicit some advice:

• Do you use reference tracks in your productions?
• Do you use them while creating material? for mixing? for mastering?
• How do you go about choosing reference tracks?
• Any pointers to tutorials (YT, etc.) about reference tracks that you've found helpful?

Thanks.

1). Sometimes
2). mostly mastering, but I've done it for mixing as well
3). I look through tracks that were mixed properly rather just random audio files
4). I've actually learned about reference tracks when I first started, back in like 2019-2020 time, but my mixing was crap because I was stuck with a demo version of FL for 3 years.

[Zeisner]

but my mixing was crap because I was stuck with a demo version of FL for 3 years.

Back then I was also stuck with a demo version (FruityLoops 3.0) for a couple of years. I recorded everything by connecting the speaker output with the line input of my onboard soundchip. Mixed everything on the smallest and cheapest speakers available. But this helped me to learn to work more efficient. The small speakers also helped me to focus more on the mid frequencies which matter the most.

[Hipster Bales]

but my mixing was crap because I was stuck with a demo version of FL for 3 years.

Back then I was also stuck with a demo version (FruityLoops 3.0) for a couple of years. I recorded everything by connecting the speaker output with the line input of my onboard soundchip. Mixed everything on the smallest and cheapest speakers available. But this helped me to learn to work more efficient. The small speakers also helped me to focus more on the mid frequencies which matter the most.

Did the same, on some cheap headphones from the nearest store, on a not-so-powerful PC back in 2022-2023 (so I understood the fundamentals of mixing, I just couldn't use them due to limitations, and also I was a starter producer back then), and when I actually started in 2019 with an iPad and GarageBand, I relied on the iPad's built-in speakers.

[Zeisner]

I relied on the iPad's built-in speakers.

That's even worse than the mini speakers I had. But then I had to work with Windows ME (later 2000) and a 300 MHz CPU which could crash at any moment because the hardware was dying. Feels like coming full circle with Windows 11 now which can also crash at any given moment...

[Hipster Bales]

I relied on the iPad's built-in speakers.

That's even worse than the mini speakers I had. But then I had to work with Windows ME (later 2000) and a 300 MHz CPU which could crash at any moment because the hardware was dying. Feels like coming full circle with Windows 11 now which can also crash at any given moment...

Yea, they're crap, and when I started with FL 20 (I think it was March of 2022 I think), I had to use the onboard sound card on my PC as well. I think I had a quad-core i3 from 2017, and 4GB of RAM (compare that to my current setup with an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G, a GTX 1050 Ti, 32GB RAM, some OneOdio headphones, not the best but they are 1000x better than when I started with the iPad speakers)

[Zeisner]

some OneOdio headphones, not the best but they are 1000x better than when I started with the iPad speakers)

At least get some okayish studio monitors in the 200 Euro range. Mixing and mastering is not possible with headphones only because of the missing HRTF.

[Hipster Bales]

some OneOdio headphones, not the best but they are 1000x better than when I started with the iPad speakers)

At least get some okayish studio monitors in the 200 Euro range. Mixing and mastering is not possible with headphones only because of the missing HRTF.

I actually want studio monitors, but I can't really afford any right now, so I'm using what I have (also I test my mix on multiple devices e.g. a phone speaker, car stereo, etc)
I have some hi-fi speakers, but let's be honest, they're not great for mixing either.

[Zeisner]

I have some hi-fi speakers, but let's be honest, they're not great for mixing either.

They are not good as studio monitors but still useful as reference speakers. I use pretty much everything I can get my hands on as reference speakers, including 5 Euro USB speakers. If you can get the same vibe (not sound!) on all of them, then you know you did well.

[Hipster Bales]

I have some hi-fi speakers, but let's be honest, they're not great for mixing either.

They are not good as studio monitors but still useful as reference speakers. I use pretty much everything I can get my hands on as reference speakers, including 5 Euro USB speakers. If you can get the same vibe (not sound!) on all of them, then you know you did well.

I use everything I can find (my phone, some wireless earbuds I have, a car stereo if I get the chance, etc). I agree with your point on that one.

[Benedict]

The concept of Referencing has changed in the last while. I do it as it was but not as it (wrongly) is now.

Whan I get a new situation, I set things up and listen to quality work I know well and feel how it feels in the new space. I use the same few tracks as they are a) the habit which is part of this process/ritual and b) they are quality work from different perspectives - only some of which are about technicalities as most are about feel:
1. Alan Parsons Project - "Eye In The Sky" album. "Sirius/Eye" will tell you if your rig is muddy (especially great for portables etc). "Old And Wise" will tell you about depth and detail. If that orchestra etc doesn't just open up and go aaah, you have no soul.
2. Pink Floyd - "Division Bell" is just technically perfect. The music is fab too but if you need to get pedantic, this is it.
3. Cold Chisel "Just How Many Times" is not easy for all to find. The record it is off sounds a bit like it was recorded in a trash can but if this feels as rich as it feels you are there.
4. I almost always start my actual listening with Duran Duran's first as overall there are not many records as lovely overall for non-showoff-y Scene or atmosphere.

Roxy Music "Avalon" is similar in a sense to the DD record but a bit more showoff perhaps. Remember here I am after vibe NOT the technicality of how blammy or bassy or tingy it is. That is stroking the wrong feeling You may note that several of these sound 'limited' by modern standards to thin, too quiet, too.. But that is the thing, they may not be as LOUD + W-I-D-E as trailer Swift, but they deliver a more detailed experience, not only in the content but in the feeling experience. If you can't reach in, you are not ready.

Once I FEEL that in my new stereo/room etc I can then make music.

I never ever A-B within my DAW as that was considered an abomination when I started. I did one mix where I wanted it to have some of the vibe of a Cure concert at their best so I had that open in YooBoob to see how it felt when Robbie & Tollie did it but not cloning. It was only the vibe I wanted to mesh with the vibe of the track I was mixing.

I know how the four systems I have in my life feel. My studio, lounge, bedroom, car and again never run from one to another with my USB stick. I do my work in the day, watch TV (clears the palette and normalizes average sounds), then pop on the music to feel it. It works or it does not. I adjust what feels to not work. Before an album goes out it plays as I read my book in bed and as I drive somewhere in my car - never a forced trip but just shopping etc.

It all has to be normal or the results are broken. IT IS NEVER ABOUT being pedantic about whether I hear the 1,458.1265Hz the same but if I feel the Scene & Story of the Song/s as they are.

[Starbright]

I always calibrate ears with reference tracks as I start any mixing at all.
Just as important as taking pauses and then go back and continue.

I just put together a combined track with 90s of various recordings that I feel sound really good regarding either drums, vocals or something else.

But never bothered with Radio Ready or something like that. Just calibrate ears.

Same with me. Dpending on the song I'll also look out for something similar. Depending if it's a mix for someone else I'll try to listen to their references or the ones I feel fit the vibe I want to mix for.
I'll also try to take regular breaks and test my ears to listen to that reference and if I suddenly think the reference is sh*t I know it's time for a longer break.
But lately I'm trying to keep it more simple: I'll just try to finish everything in 1 hour to avoid ear fatique and option paralasys....