Zebra 3.0 - out now

[pdxindy]

Do any of those other synths have MSEG's that can morph between curves with the curves each having their own loop points?

That is completely inconsequential to the feature request. The feature request is simply about locking the phase of the MSEG to the song position pointer. It's not rocket science. We do it in Surge XT when you set "Freerun" mode of the LFO/MSEG.

That's why I said it hurts my brain

[Urs]

You are basically talking about LFOs, where half of the functionality of the MSEG is discarded.

How do you want to sync an MSEG in Zebra 3 where the loop length is morphed from 2 quarters to 5 quarters? You can only properly do it by saying "this MSEG is not an MSEG, it is solely an LFO without any attack phase, without any release phase, without any loop points, and all of its snapshots that can be morphed between are actually of same length, regardless of what the user has drawn into it".

[EvilDragon]

I guess perhaps that's the solution then - use the Z3 spline editor as a custom LFO waveform! Of course, with blending between multiple waveforms, as it is in MSEG.

I mean, we did have a custom LFO shape in Z2, limited as it were, but we did.

[Urs]

Sure, that is a feature request I can work with. We even have several concurrent concepts for this, we just have not decided on any.

[ptnah]

You are basically talking about LFOs, where half of the functionality of the MSEG is discarded.

How do you want to sync an MSEG in Zebra 3 where the loop length is morphed from 2 quarters to 5 quarters? You can only properly do it by saying "this MSEG is not an MSEG, it is solely an LFO without any attack phase, without any release phase, without any loop points, and all of its snapshots that can be morphed between are actually of same length, regardless of what the user has drawn into it".

yes, that is what we all are talking about, custom LFOs with the visual interface of the MSEGs

[aMUSEd]

More like Audiodamages FEG's

[EvilDragon]

Sure, that is a feature request I can work with. We even have several concurrent concepts for this, we just have not decided on any.

Awesome!

And - it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Wherever there's a waveform in a module, you could have the spline editor for drawing a custom waveform. Consistent user experience.

[Urs]

The problem is, I'm pretty convinced that adding yet another set of 4 spline editors is going to be overkill in itself. The LFOs (like the envelopes) draw strength from their simplicity. Hence we're discussing other options, but nothing we're going to rush.

[pdxindy]

I guess perhaps that's the solution then - use the Z3 spline editor as a custom LFO waveform! Of course, with blending between multiple waveforms, as it is in MSEG.

Maybe better a single simplified curve for a custom LFO shape. That's more straightforward for a tempo sync'ed LFO.

[ptnah]

The problem is, I'm pretty convinced that adding yet another set of 4 spline editors is going to be overkill in itself. The LFOs (like the envelopes) draw strength from their simplicity. Hence we're discussing other options, but nothing we're going to rush.

can it not be either/or?
MSEGs that can be used either in their original sense or as custom LFOs?
wave-internal looppoints and snapshots (of differing length) being simply disabled in the latter case?
and of course keeping the standard LFOs as they are!

[cvale]

This is in fact related to my other request to have the Guides work like the splines, so that morphing between them would be a proper morph and not a simple crossfade, or alternatively to be able to select OSC curves (you can already do this in the FX but can currently only use that one OSC and not freely choose which one you use, which is an unfortunate limitation).

[pdxindy]

It’s incredibly useful in sequenced music.
I wrote about it at length already a few pages back.
Maybe most objectives could be reached with some combination of the available modulators or external mod sources, but the point is to have it available in a quick, straightforward and visual way, since it is utilized so frequently in working on real-world tracks

When you say "but the point is to have it available" what is "it"?

Generally speaking, if I want a repeating curve that is locked to tempo and independent of any notes played, I use Daw Automation for that. That's more controllable and easily tweaked as part of the project.

If it's in relation to notes played, then we already have that.

[ptnah]

It’s incredibly useful in sequenced music.
I wrote about it at length already a few pages back.
Maybe most objectives could be reached with some combination of the available modulators or external mod sources, but the point is to have it available in a quick, straightforward and visual way, since it is utilized so frequently in working on real-world tracks

When you say "but the point is to have it available" what is "it"?

Generally speaking, if I want a repeating curve that is locked to tempo and independent of any notes played, I use Daw Automation for that. That's more controllable and easily tweaked as part of the project.

If it's in relation to notes played, then we already have that.

"It" is, as in all my other posts regarding the topic, a repeating curve of a certain length that is locked to tempo.

You may prefer to use automation for that; I don't, at least not in the early stages of the project or sound evolution. For me, it is much quicker and much more intuitive to have that function internal to the synth, so I don't have to switch to editing automation in the DAW while working on and editing the sound in the synth GUI.

By that logic, why have LFOs at all? It could all be drawn in via automation, no?

These discussed custom LFOs also don't necessarily have to be many measures long; they can also be short or, sometimes, of non-standard lengths (7/16, 5/8, etc.). Drawing these in as automation? I don't know.
And with automation, the respective parameter/knob in the synth GUI is then also "locked", one has to switch again to the daw to tweak it via the lane.

Also, one custom curve can, of course, be routed to many parameters in the synth, and the modulation depth itself can be modulated—a feature that automation wouldn't be able to provide as easily. And all these automation lanes for each modulated parameter? Nah, it is better to have one wave and multiple internal routings in the synth. just as with an LFO.

Plus, all is saved with the patch and not the project.

I'm sure even more points can be argued for these custom LFOs, but these are just a few.

I should mention that I am working in Cubase, which can be a bit cumbersome in these regards compared to, for example, Ableton Live—which is why I prefer having looped modulation internal to the synth.

[EvilDragon]

I guess perhaps that's the solution then - use the Z3 spline editor as a custom LFO waveform! Of course, with blending between multiple waveforms, as it is in MSEG.

Maybe better a single simplified curve for a custom LFO shape. That's more straightforward for a tempo sync'ed LFO.

Nah. Wavetable LFO is awesome and unique.

[exmatproton]

I guess perhaps that's the solution then - use the Z3 spline editor as a custom LFO waveform! Of course, with blending between multiple waveforms, as it is in MSEG.

Maybe better a single simplified curve for a custom LFO shape. That's more straightforward for a tempo sync'ed LFO.

...... and unique.

not anymore