Zebra 3 unison's weird resonance.

[Igro]

Hi! I noticed that Zebra 3 starts to resonate when many unison voices are in use. I don't know how to describe it,it sounds like "uiu uiu uiu" (or "wiu wiu wiu") It is very audible in headphones. The funny part is that this resonant sound disappears in like 7-10 seconds. For instance, try C4 note, SAW waveform, unison 16 voices, detune 14ct, mono (it just more obvious in mono).

I tried other synths with similar settings and they are OK.

[Benedict]

Is this because you have all the OSC Phase Locked so they are flanging as they start the same? This explains the 'whine' and that it fades after a while.

BTW I don't have Zebra (3 or otherwise) but all unisoned synths will do that eg Europa.

[bhinton]

I can hear it using your example. A soft repeating B-flat six when playing C4, first repeating 4 times a second, then twice per second, eventually disappearing but eventually reappearing again. It's not as pronounced with phase locked (though that's probably because it's masked by the flanging effect).
I tried setting it to 11 voices in order to compare it to a Z2 oscillator at the same settings - heard a little resonance at the same frequency in both, but not pronounced (a little more in Z3) - but the overall sound of the saw is of course very different between the two.
Naturally occurring phenomenon? Curious what Urs and Co. have to say.

[Urs]

In the past 12 years we have been able to recreate anything "suspicious" in our unison implementations with any given synth that was supposed to "sound correct". Like when people say "there's a low end rumble here that isn't in synth XY", we may spend one, two or even five hours to find the matching setting in synth XY that exhibits the same effect.

So far we have always succeeded. But nobody gives us the hours back that we put into such claims. The cost of each such instance is worse than most complex support cases.

Therefore I would like to ask to not post such claims unless you have at least put 2 maybe 3 hours into trying to recreate the same setting in whatever other reference synth. Sometimes you have to listen to a held note for a minute or two before it happens. It may be random, it may depend on when the host starts the processing.

In any case, in our experience no magic phase relation can avoid that someone somewhere can focus their ears on some random phase relation and attribute it to "something suspicious".

[bhinton]

fwiw, my reaction to being able to duplicate it was "cool. i like this. "
it doesn't sound like error. it sounds organic. it sounds like character, which is a very very very good thing.

[Urs]

Well, hehehe, as long as people don't expect us to fix something that very, very likely isn't broken, then I'm totally fine.

Note that the sentence "I tried other synths with similar settings and they are OK." makes it appear that the OP thinks that what he hears in Zebra is "not OK" and therefore might be "in need of fixing"...

[JasonSpatola]

Well, I personally wanna hear what it sounds like.

[Igro]

Well, hehehe, as long as people don't expect us to fix something that very, very likely isn't broken, then I'm totally fine.

Note that the sentence "I tried other synths with similar settings and they are OK." makes it appear that the OP thinks that what he hears in Zebra is "not OK" and therefore might be "in need of fixing"...

Not at all. But how could I claim something like that without a backup? I found so many audio related issues in so many synths where the developers were very defensive at first, but then accepted the issues (though the unison I'm talking about is not an issue, it's a behavior). I understand you Urs, there are some users on the main forum thread, that gave you some headache. But those are quite aggressive feature pushing customers and did exactly that - comparing all the time and mentioning those "other" synths. I'm sorry if I unintentionally added another drop to this. I usually post about audio. If I wouldn't be confident in you products, the I wouldn't buy Hive 2 yesterday.

Anyway, i will post audio soon. And no, it is not a phase locked unison. And no, it is not related to a very specific setting. It sounds almost like a psychoacoustic phenomenon, but it isn't.

[pdxindy]

Anyway, i will post audio soon.

I am curious to listen...

[Igro]

So here it is. Zebra 3 vs Hive 2. This "other" is Hive 2 now

https://sndup.net/g6f7d/

First is Zebra 3. Listen to how this resonance disappear at approximately half way (or even at 1/3). Then will be Hive 2 and there is no resonance or whatsoever. Use headphones obviously. I'm not talking about the unison beating sound, but this metallic "Viu viu".

[pdxindy]

So here it is.

Link doesn't work for me

[Satch1]

Link doesn't work for me either.

I just investigated this resonance thing, and I can hear it too, or at least I can hear something different to other synths. Whether that's what you're hearing, I don't know. I accentuated it by running the oscillator through a Linear 6dB LP filter with keytracked cutoff set to 1.76kHz, and resonance up around 70. That really made it way more obvious. But I can definitely hear it without the filter too.

With other synths I couldn't find that same, or similar resonance, even when searching for it with a resonant filter.

[Igro]

Please try the new link.

[Satch1]

That link worked. You played a C1 note though, which is not so obvious. If you play C4, like you said in your original post, then it's much easier to hear it.

Anyway, I'm undecided whether it's a good or bad thing, it's just different.

[Igro]

That link worked. You played a C1 note though, which is not so obvious. If you play C4, like you said in your original post, then it's much easier to hear it.

Anyway, I'm undecided whether it's a good or bad thing, it's just different.

Or C2. I hear it clearly there. But if i hold the note, the resonance go away after 7-10 seconds...
It doesn't sound pleasant.