Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[IvyBirds]

Sure and I am 100% against it and think it's unethical when anyone does it

So not a fan of sequencers either then?

Not for live use by rock/pop bands absolutely not. It's no different than prerecorded tracks, especially if you are selling expensive tickets in arena tours

For someone like Tangerine Dream playing Berlin School on stage back in the day sure as they were using the sequencer as an instrument

In the studio as part of the songwriting and recording process sure they are a handy tool

People pay for the music, not how it was made

People pay for concert tickets to hear live music not prerecorded tracks being played by bands who pretend it's live. By your logic why have a band at all? Why not just have a a guy play the record straight through on the stage. Just walk out and hit play on a CD player and walk off. How many tickets do you think that would sell and at what price?

[dieterlaser]

There is not a single comment I could get behind

Even the one about this thread being a thick, musty erotic sauna??

ok, sorry. I must admit I didnt read everything. ill get behind that

[IvyBirds]

Yes, and if you knew anything about Hooky, you would know that his basslines were actually the lead parts of their songs and the bass was usually a synth.

And if you knew anything about Wilder you would know he was very meticulous about sequencing

Sure and that's awesome for the record, but when selling tickets for a live show they could have easily hired musicians to play synth bass parts so it was live music

When people buy records they know they are buying prerecorded music so it's perfectly ethical to use a sequencer to record and produce basslines and other song parts

When they buy tickets to see bands with bass players and keyboard players perform live on tour they expect to see actual human beings play those bass lines and keyboard/synth parts.

Imagine being a musician on a forum dedicated to musicians and not advocating that musicians actually have live music being played live on stage and instead you think it's awesome that musicians pretend it's being played live with prerecorded tracks being played on stage.

Live music should always be live music, even if by doing so it ends up sounding different than the record. The audience expects it to be live and expects it to sound a bit different

I play 80s bass lines on Synths all the time live. It's really not hard and most of them are rather simplistic. Do you really need a sequencer to play F - C - D - G - C - D on a Moog Source to pull off Blue Monday live on stage? Or are you just doing so because you are to cheap to hire a musician to do so and want to keep that money for yourself. They were touring arenas and selling tens of thousands of tickets every night they can easily hire someone

[zerocrossing]

Is having prerecorded AI, or even playing parts that GAI made, all that different than what a DJ does? One of the reasons I stopped performing was when I was packing up my gear after a rave, and a bunch of dudes came up on the mezzanine, to where we'd performed, and asked us if we were going to play. They had no idea, nor did they care, that the last hour of music was spontaneously improvised by two musicians. Stuff was sequenced, but even that I was making up on as we went. They then went to fawn all over the DJ about the cool track he was playing.

People go to shows for the social aspects of a show. The music, frankly, is usually not important. Major arena acts have been lip syncing to tracks for years. What I don't actually understand is, why are some people so eager to relinquish the joy of making music to an algorithm that's owned by a corporation. I imagine those people were never really into it for the music in the first place.

[Vortifex]

Tangerine Dream were miming their live sets for a long time. When I saw them live in the 2000s the only people playing live were a percussionist and guitarist. Edgar briefly played some guitar but the rest of the time he and Jerome were miming.

[concealed identity]

Coincidentally, Peter Hook is one of the funniest examples to use here. He used to do "DJ sets" where his DJ equipment wasn't even plugged in and he just mimicked DJ moves while a prerecorded mix played from the PA.

[stoopicus]

Coincidentally, Peter Hook is one of the funniest examples to use here. He used to do "DJ sets" where his DJ equipment wasn't even plugged in and he just mimicked DJ moves while a prerecorded mix played from the PA.

He is one of my heroes and this is just making it better

[Seafire Mk2]

.

Imagine being a musician on a forum dedicated to musicians and not advocating that musicians actually have live music being played live on stage and instead you think it's awesome that musicians pretend it's being played live with prerecorded tracks being played on stage.

None of the bands I've seen were pretending. New Order, Depeche Mode, shit loads of 80s synth bands. They all had backing tracks/drums on tape and played live parts on top. Didn't see anyone complaining.

[stoopicus]

There is not a single comment I could get behind

Even the one about this thread being a thick, musty erotic sauna??

ok, sorry. I must admit I didnt read everything. ill get behind that

Welcome to KVR! Throw some water on the rocks while you're up

[SamDi]

I think bands like Depeche Mode and New Order if they used sequencers for basslines on stage were being unethical

That‘s not unethical, that are just first world problems.
Genocide is unethical, children in wars, women locked in their homes. Musicians using backing tracks or sequencers? A really unimportant topic!

[dieterlaser]

There is not a single comment I could get behind

Even the one about this thread being a thick, musty erotic sauna??

ok, sorry. I must admit I didnt read everything. ill get behind that

Welcome to KVR! Throw some water on the rocks while you're up

haha, now you're all nice to me. I thought everyone would throw their pitchforks at me, after my comment. you guys are something.

[dieterlaser]

Just one little side question, if I may. I just want to understand it and I hope someone can explain: Why are most people here thinking very critical of Acustica Audio, while at gearspace they are more excited about them?

I just find this weird. I dig their stuff, but Im also a super late adopter with a stinky new MacBook and a big fat hard drive (my time to humble brag)

[D-Fusion]

Just one little side question, if I may. I just want to understand it and I hope someone can explain: Why are most people here thinking very critical of Acustica Audio, while at gearspace they are more excited about them?

I just find this weird. I dig their stuff, but Im also a super late adopter with a stinky new MacBook and a big fat hard drive (my time to humble brag)

Accustica Audio has some great products but i never bought anything from them because i have more than enough plugins Atm. So i have no hate for the company or their products

Welcome to KVR (The Real life text based version of a Soap Opera)

[VOODOO U]

I see you don't understand how music licensing works

I thought I read that you did weddings/private parties etc. as well? The artists you cover do not get paid for those performances. But you do. That's so unethical.
Secondly I've actually gotten paid to.assist bands/songwriters with contracts. I am fully aware with how licensing works and it would be foolish to count on venue owners to wear their goody-two shoes and pay a licensing fee. You'd be surprised how many try to slide by with that.

Also our audience knows we didn't write the music we perform. We are in no way passing off the work of others as our own.

So you expect Cyndi Lauper should have told her fans at every show she didn't write Girls Just Wanna Have Fun? You expected Bon Jovi should have informed their fans at every show during the Slippery When Wet heydeys that they didn't write the hits? You expect fans to care? They don't. Thousands of fans on a nightly basis didn't care.

Every note and sound they hear is also coming directly from real musicians being played live. None of anything we do is AI generated, sequenced in anyway, or on prerecorded tracks

And I bet bars with Karaoke make way more money than those that invest in live playing cover bands.

[IvyBirds]

I see you don't understand how music licensing works

I thought I read that you did weddings/private parties etc. as well? The artists you cover do not get paid for those performances. But you do. That's so unethical.

Again it's the venues responsibility and the venues I play in which are either churches, dedicated wedding venues, private property, or social halls, all have blanket licenses or don't need any at license at all. Your ignorance to basic facts doesn't make me unethical

Also beyond that just about everything I play at weddings is in the public domain anyway. Felix Mendelssohn died in 1847 can you tell me who the venue should send licensing fees to when I play his famous "Wedding March" on my Montage or their piano?

Franz Schubert died in 1828 who should I send his royalties to everytime I play Ave Maria in a Catholic Church?



And of course in the USA which is where I live and work there is a "Religious Service Exemption" in Section 110(3) of the U.S. Copyright Law. It allows places of worship to perform copyrighted music during in-person religious services without a license or paying royalties. A wedding in a church performed by a an ordained minister, Rabbi, or priest under US Law is considered a religious service and is exempt

So any copyrighted work is just fine to perform anyway and is perfectly ethical to perform. Again your ignorance to basic facts doesn't make me unethical

Professional Wedding Venues, hotels, and reception halls also all have blanket licenses that cover public performance. Again your ignorance to basic facts doesn't make me unethical

Beyond that weddings and even parties in private settings on private property that are not ticketed and which are generally limited to family and friends are considered private events under US Copyright Law and under 17 U.S. Code § 106(4) are exempt from any licensing requirements for public performance of copyrighted works. Once again your ignorance to basic facts doesn't make me unethical. A private party at say a country club with 2,000 people might be a different story, but they will have a blanket license anyway

Secondly I've actually gotten paid to.assist bands/songwriters with contracts. I am fully aware with how licensing works

Only you very clearly do not know how licensing works,. I feel sorry for the people who pay you for your supposed expertise that you clearly think you have but tragically don't

and it would be foolish to count on venue owners to wear their goody-two shoes and pay a licensing fee. You'd be surprised how many try to slide by with that.

Wow again you are just embarrassing yourself at this point. Venue owners buy a Blanket Licenses from Performance Rights Organizations (PROs) such as ASCAP, or BMI. That blanket license fixes the very issue you are unethically charging people to fix, that you are totally clueless about

We always ask about the venues licensing before we play there, because it's just the normal way to do business. If they don't have one or seem as clueless about it as you are that's a massive red flag that they also won't deal with us ethically and we stay away

Licensing and copyright issues regarding live performance is something I know quite a bit about as it's all part of being a professional working musician. Rather than embarrassing yourself further if you have any questions feel free to ask.