Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[vurt]

10 points for a carter usm anecdote.

Was actually playing some of their tracks for a friend who'd never heard of them a few days ago. They weren't really that big outside the UK, which I think is quite understandable.

yup quintessentially british humour in a musical form, not going to go down well elsewhere.

still sorting through the mess of cds and vinyl after the move 18 months ago i came to my old carter collection, the first 3 albums and a load of 12 and 7 inches
gotta love some sheriff fatman, bit of red dwarf thrown in then

[TechHaus]

I just want to post Justice's stage setup because it's so iconic and cool.

Also Justice's live versions are way better than the album versions!

[IvyBirds]

So not a fan of sequencers either then?

Not for live use by rock/pop bands absolutely not. It's no different than prerecorded tracks, especially if you are selling expensive tickets in arena tours

For someone like Tangerine Dream playing Berlin School on stage back in the day sure as they were using the sequencer as an instrument

In the studio as part of the songwriting and recording process sure they are a handy tool

This is a horrible uninformed post (as was the comment about Peter Hook/synth bass lines). What you are actually asking for is an inauthentic experience in some cases.

No I am asking for real musicians playing real music in a live setting. What's in authentic is paying for live music and having prerecorded tracks instead

One of the bands I grew up listening to as a teenager was Carter USM. You've probably never heard of them, but it's essentially a kind of pop punk band with 2 members. When they play live, it's those two members and no one else. They have 2 guitars and 2 mics. Everything else is pre-programmed synth parts in massive rack. The drums? Programmed on a drum synth. The bass? Programmed on another synth. The pads, the melodies? All pre-programmed synth playback.

And yet nobody has a problem with that. It's how they made the albums. They played the guitar parts, they sung the vocals, and they programmed everything else on a synth. In fact, that's The Sound(TM). Just like with the Peter Hook live bass lead over a sequenced synth bass.

So it's how the made the RECORD then not how it was performed live. Two guys played the guitar parts, they sung the vocals, and they programmed everything else on a synth. So why not have actual musicians then play everything else live? You know actual have live music ?

People are paying to see the band live, not some randos cluttering the stage playing parts that were never played by a musician in the first place.

Are they paying to see the band live? Or paying to hear prerecorded tracks. Because you are contradicting yourself. You seem to be advocating that they not get to see a band play live and yet you say they are paying for it. Ever think that's why no one has heard of those bands? Because when the general public goes to see live music they expect to see live music?

[IvyBirds]

People pay for concert tickets to hear live music not prerecorded tracks being played by bands who pretend it's live. By your logic why have a band at all? Why not just have a a guy play the record straight through on the stage. Just walk out and hit play on a CD player and walk off. How many tickets do you think that would sell and at what price?

This is how a lot of modern / soundcloud rappers perform. They will rap right over their ummmm.. CD's. (What year is Ivy stuck in?)

A lot of people pay. They sing along. It's like a big communal event.

BoC gave their last concert on May 1, 2001. They have released 5 Albums in 28 years. Not much more is known.

I don't know which other services show streaming numbers, but the album is a bomb on YouTube Music. And that's with like sooo much promotion - everyone wrote / talked about their album on every medium.

Conversely, if they toured they would make BANK right now.

Nah that tour would flop

The oracle has spoken

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

[vurt]

what if they pay to see "gorillaz"?

[IvyBirds]

People pay for concert tickets to hear live music not prerecorded tracks being played by bands who pretend it's live. By your logic why have a band at all? Why not just have a a guy play the record straight through on the stage. Just walk out and hit play on a CD player and walk off. How many tickets do you think that would sell and at what price?

This is how a lot of modern / soundcloud rappers perform. They will rap right over their ummmm.. CD's. (What year is Ivy stuck in?)

A lot of people pay. They sing along. It's like a big communal event.

BoC gave their last concert on May 1, 2001. They have released 5 Albums in 28 years. Not much more is known.

I don't know which other services show streaming numbers, but the album is a bomb on YouTube Music. And that's with like sooo much promotion - everyone wrote / talked about their album on every medium.

Conversely, if they toured they would make BANK right now.

Nah that tour would flop

they're not talking about the blue oyster cult.

I know they are talking about Boards of Canada a duo I quite enjoy who just came out with a new album called Inferno which I purchased the day it dropped

I also think a hypothetical tour by Boards of Canada in 2026 would flop and flop big time while the actual tour by Blue Oyster Cult will do quite well

The biggest issue for a Boards of Canada Tour in 2026 is that they are an unknown entity. So booking would be extremely hard to come by as who would promote them and what local club would want to book them?

Blue Oyster Cult is a known entity that still continues to tour and still continues to fill the venues they play. Their audience will also buy an large quantity of beer and liquor as well as food making the venue lots of money, as well as sell merch making the venue even more money

I am actually seeing them in August here in America in Lancaster PA, and probably again in November in New Jersey. I would go see Boards of Canada also if they toured but I can't see them filling 1500 seat venues like Blue Oyster Cult does

[vurt]

i shall refrain from making jokes to you.
i get a certain feeling from the way you communicate.
have a lovely day

[IvyBirds]

i shall refrain from making jokes to you.
i get a certain feeling from the way you communicate.
have a lovely day

Making jokes about what? Fire away, i get a certain feeling from the way you communicate, that you wanted to insult me but didn't want the consequences. So you are using a passive-aggressive form of communication used to get an insult into the conversation while giving you a quick, cowardly "out" if confronted.

It’s always fascinating watching you stutter over your own thoughts because you lack the backbone to say what you actually mean. You standing there teasing a 'joke' you’re too terrified to finish is the most pathetic display of cowardice I've seen all week. If you're going to attempt an insult, at least have the courage to commit to it instead of choking on your own words. Next time you want to play passive-aggressive mind games, remember that everyone in the room can see right through your insecurity and your desperate need for attention. Do yourself a favor: grow a spine or stay quiet.

[BONES]

electronic music is up against DJ's and DJ's won that battle, at least in clubs.

That's true of electronic dance music but there are other types of electronic music, from Ambient to EBM.

You are not dragging your Modular system to a live show

Actually, we know someone who does exactly that. They've supported us a couple of times. They're a lot more Industrial than we are and they take pride in never doing their material the same way twice.

Some people literally create everything with a mouse and a laptop, no keys or controllers involved.

That's us about 95% of the time. We're not musicians and have no desire to become musicians.

it's ok to play other artists works, get paid, and not pay a cent to the original songwriters of those works.

Actually, if you play those things live then your local performing right body will get some money to the publishers of the songs, so the original artists will get their cut.

[machinesworking]

I know they are talking about Boards of Canada a duo I quite enjoy who just came out with a new album called Inferno which I purchased the day it dropped

I also think a hypothetical tour by Boards of Canada in 2026 would flop and flop big time while the actual tour by Blue Oyster Cult will do quite well

The biggest issue for a Boards of Canada Tour in 2026 is that they are an unknown entity. So booking would be extremely hard to come by as who would promote them and what local club would want to book them?

Blue Oyster Cult is a known entity that still continues to tour and still continues to fill the venues they play. Their audience will also buy an large quantity of beer and liquor as well as food making the venue lots of money, as well as sell merch making the venue even more money

I am actually seeing them in August here in America in Lancaster PA, and probably again in November in New Jersey. I would go see Boards of Canada also if they toured but I can't see them filling 1500 seat venues like Blue Oyster Cult does

Blue Oyster Cult are at the casino and fairgrounds tour level these days, at least here in WA that's exactly where they would play. Boards of Canada would do pretty well in the USA anyway, not arena level but what group like them plays arenas? 1500 to 800 seat venus in cities like NY and SF are about where I see them sitting. They don't play live much vat all and the people that like them really do like them. Comparably Autechre whom they have played shows with in the past sold out the Crocodile at a 750 seat capacity just recently, they easily could have done two nights there I would bet.

[machinesworking]

electronic music is up against DJ's and DJ's won that battle, at least in clubs.

That's true of electronic dance music but there are other types of electronic music, from Ambient to EBM.

Barring of course the larger acts, EBM and Goth Industrial is far more profitable in DJ nights than live event nights. It's not easy drumming up interest locally in your band, but everyone will bounce to the club to hear Headhunter on a PA for the millionth time.

You are not dragging your Modular system to a live show

Actually, we know someone who does exactly that. They've supported us a couple of times. They're a lot more Industrial than we are and they take pride in never doing their material the same way twice.

Yep, it happens, and Trent Reznor has the roadies to do that too. You get my point though.

Some people literally create everything with a mouse and a laptop, no keys or controllers involved.

That's us about 95% of the time. We're not musicians and have no desire to become musicians.

I saw Imminent Starvation years ago with just a laptop onstage and it was great, that sort of barrage is meant for large speakers. There are no rules to this, we're at the stage where a lot of great music is a matter of precise mouse editing, and that's fine.

Plus I would argue that you are musicians, just not musicians that are technically proficient on a traditional instrument. I'll die on this hill though, technical proficiency is less important than creative impact when it comes to art, including music.

Where I bounce back over to the traditional musician side though is people are obvious bereft of creativity in terms of writing and some of that is how easy it is to get into these days. I'm glad anybody can grab a laptop and copy of FL Studio and throw out a song, but so much of is it mind numbingly dull, the loop library and AI world is going to make standing out easier in a way, because too much of it all sounds dull.

[stoopicus]

What you're asking for is a bunch of people who aren't in the band to show up, play parts that were never played by a human, balloon the costs of the whole thing - all to deliver an experience that has nothing to do with the actual music the people are coming to see.

Sounds like latter-day New Order

...who aren't even the best New Order cover band any more

(I'm actually serious, Hooky's doing great things with The Light, which is basically Monaco + Jack Bates. Seeing Hooky and his son both on bass is pretty awesome actually.

...and they absolutely use sequencers ofc)

[Seafire Mk2]

The oracle has spoken

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

I didn't.

[Seafire Mk2]

I would go see Boards of Canada also if they toured

What with all those sequencers and laptops?

[IvyBirds]

I know they are talking about Boards of Canada a duo I quite enjoy who just came out with a new album called Inferno which I purchased the day it dropped

I also think a hypothetical tour by Boards of Canada in 2026 would flop and flop big time while the actual tour by Blue Oyster Cult will do quite well

The biggest issue for a Boards of Canada Tour in 2026 is that they are an unknown entity. So booking would be extremely hard to come by as who would promote them and what local club would want to book them?

Blue Oyster Cult is a known entity that still continues to tour and still continues to fill the venues they play. Their audience will also buy an large quantity of beer and liquor as well as food making the venue lots of money, as well as sell merch making the venue even more money

I am actually seeing them in August here in America in Lancaster PA, and probably again in November in New Jersey. I would go see Boards of Canada also if they toured but I can't see them filling 1500 seat venues like Blue Oyster Cult does

Blue Oyster Cult are at the casino and fairgrounds tour level these days, at least here in WA that's exactly where they would play. Boards of Canada would do pretty well in the USA anyway, not arena level but what group like them plays arenas? 1500 to 800 seat venus in cities like NY and SF are about where I see them sitting. They don't play live much vat all and the people that like them really do like them. Comparably Autechre whom they have played shows with in the past sold out the Crocodile at a 750 seat capacity just recently, they easily could have done two nights there I would bet.

You do realize that Blue Oyster Cult also plays 1500 to 800 seat venues in cities like New York and San Fran right? That's when they are not playing to thousands more at festivals and fairs

The narrative presented was that if they toured they would make bank. You are agreeing with me that they wouldn't make bank as you don't make bank with a few one off shows