GForce Sequential Prophet-5

[beely]

Yes, analog VCO's are not 100% stable. It's why synth makers moved from VCOs to DCOs (and then everyone complained that the oscillators were too stable and boring )

Anyway - it seems to behave like the hardware it's modelling in that regard. "Moving" is not "drunk" - "drunk" as I interpret it would be patches that are *way* out of tune, not a few cents here and there, so perhaps I was reading way more into your "drunk" comment than you were intending. However, others have being saying the tuning is way out by 10 cents or more, so I figured you were all talking about the same behaviours.

All good. It's a good sounding synth (even though I'm not so much a Prophet 5 fan)...

[SoftSynthLover99]

Yep, it happens sometimes. But it's something the hardware gate-keepers don't want to admit, especially after spending $4,000 on a synth that is matched on par by a $150 software, The pill can be hard to swallow

In the case of a real rev 4 the $4000 synth isn't matched by $150 software (I realize this response wasn't to a comment about the rev 4 but still relevant).

Does it sound 100% exactly the same? No

Does it sound more than close enough? Absolutely

I don’t know why it’s so hard for some to understand that “close enough” is not always desirable. Not every musician wants to compromise sound and workflow for convenience.

The power of software is low cost and efficiency within the parameters of modern computing. But to get that efficiency and CPU stability, you take a hit in sound quality/accuracy. Soft synths are made to run inside your DAW alongside tons of mixing effects and other virtual instruments so it’s never gonna deliver the full sound of hardware because doing so would render your CPU practically useless for actually making music.

So for some players who are actually good at playing, hardware is definitely more convenient at times. Instead of freezing/bouncing tracks I just record straight in with no cost to my CPU.

So no, the $150 plugin (which is awesome btw) will not give you the same experience of a real Prophet rev4 in your studio.

[jpenson]

Here's my question to Sequential/Gforce regarding patches from our hardware Prophet 5/10 Rev 4.

Q: Be great if we could convert our Prophet HW patches into this ,can you say if Gforce / Sequential could make it happen , being we actually have Sequential working with Gforce now, technically this should be possible right ?

Just to second this; add that it would be great to have it work the other way round as well; and add a few more wishes to the list...

I too have a Prophet 10 Rev 4. First off, the plug-in does sound great – rich, full, more exciting that the other Prophet 5 VSTs I have - and though I haven't tested it extensively, the only (very minor) quibble I have so far is that perhaps there’s a little less oomph in the bass end. Still, playing the two together sounds awesome.

However, for me, it would be amazing to be able to control the plug-in fully from the Rev 4. While most of the pots match and work, once mapped, the switches don't (for example, one can switch off a SW oscillator waveform from the HW, but not switch it back on again, presumably due to the toggle value of the HW button, which can't be changed). Some of the controls don't match between the HW and SW iterations, such as velocity/aftertouch functions, but a redesign might be able to circumvent the differences.

It would be fantastic if the two were to be able to exchange sysex info, and be set up so that the plug-in could act as an editor/librarian for the HW synth. (I know these do exist, but they’re pretty expensive and wouldn't integrated products be so much cooler?) A completely integrated Prophet 5 VST plug-in that allowed seamless interaction with the REV 4 would really deserve its Sequential badge.

Finally, I agree with the comments elsewhere in this thread about the GUI; as I have Repro 5 and Arturia’s Prophet V, I’ll probably stick with them simply because the interaction is that bit clearer – at least until there’s stronger integration.

[D-Fusion]

Yep, it happens sometimes. But it's something the hardware gate-keepers don't want to admit, especially after spending $4,000 on a synth that is matched on par by a $150 software, The pill can be hard to swallow

In the case of a real rev 4 the $4000 synth isn't matched by $150 software (I realize this response wasn't to a comment about the rev 4 but still relevant).

Does it sound 100% exactly the same? No

Does it sound more than close enough? Absolutely

I don’t know why it’s so hard for some to understand that “close enough” is not always desirable. Not every musician wants to compromise sound and workflow for convenience.

The power of software is low cost and efficiency within the parameters of modern computing. But to get that efficiency and CPU stability, you take a hit in sound quality/accuracy. Soft synths are made to run inside your DAW alongside tons of mixing effects and other virtual instruments so it’s never gonna deliver the full sound of hardware because doing so would render your CPU practically useless for actually making music.

So for some players who are actually good at playing, hardware is definitely more convenient at times. Instead of freezing/bouncing tracks I just record straight in with no cost to my CPU.

So no, the $150 plugin (which is awesome btw) will not give you the same experience of a real Prophet rev4 in your studio.

We are all different and some prefer Hardware and other people prefer Software or a mix of both and some have to have the Original Vintage Hardware because they don't find the Remakes to be as good as the Original.

What makes you happy when you are ready to make music is what is the most Important part....

[Jim Roseberry]

That feeling you're describing is basically imperfection, unwanted de tuning and so on. The Prophet 5/10 (all rev) got a tendency to drift very easily and even couple of minutes of the hardware running will change it's sound/behavior.
Then you also have a upper boundary to this, at some point, it sounds off tune and unpleasant.

Lots of very classic synths are like this, they basically are quite tolerant to imperfection, and people remember them as such.

Funnily enough, that was for example one of the main point against the Moog One: people were calling it uninspiring and sterile. Then they found out the mod matrix was completely insane, and could make this synth NOT be in tune, going back to what most people believe an hardware synth is about. And so now a Moog One is very well regarded as an amazing synth, it was imperfection all along

I owned the Moog One 16-voice.
Major intonation problems.
I'm not talking flattering analog drift, I'm talking badly sour notes.
Moog created an AutoTune like feature to rein-in the intonation issues... but then you've got notes sliding into pitch (which doesn't sound right/natural).
Sent my Moog One back to Moog... and they changed all the voice cards.
Get it back in my studio... same exact intonation problem.
Lets say you're playing staccato chords... like for Aldo Nova's "Fantasy".
Most of those chords would sound great... but then one would have a note that's *grossly* out of tune. That totally killed any joy of having/using it.
You couldn't nail the problem down to a single voice-card. All had the same issue.
You could literally hold a single note... and hear it drift out of tune (sometimes badly out).

Prophet 10 will go out of tune over time... but I never had major issues with it.
Tune function is fast... and pitch is good again for a long while.
It helps if you let the synth warm-up for an hour or so... and the ambient room temp stays consistent.

Never had intonation issues with Prophet 10, MiniMoog reissues, OB-X8, Muse, PolyBrute 12, etc.
When it comes to intonation, Moog One is anything but "too perfect."

[enduser282]

Pass on this one , unless osc sync is on it sounds hollow & flat. Likewise with their bass station , i like the hw but not the GF sw. OB-1 & Ob-x oscs sound better and overall much louder , probably because of the headroom needed for the two layers in P5. It also sounds thinner as you increase voice count, maybe one layer with max 10 voices would be better...

[enduser282]

In a mix, none of you could tell the difference.

I'm getting tired of this influencer lingo.

Buy it, even if you can't tell a difference compared to any other synth out there.

Maybe this is how you mix , you mask everything with 12 plugins so listeners can't tell which synth you used... or you layer everything in which case no synth character is apparent so you can use whatever you have...

Also we can tell the difference comparing with all the rest P5 emulations but vs the hardware no one can the tell the difference, it's magic i tell you , trust me bro!!

And i bet you couldn't tell a difference from GF bass station vs GF P5 , no mix needed.

Btw you forgot to tell us if you can hear the difference , instead you try explain what others hear or not, gee thanks for letting us know!

[wagtunes]

In a mix, none of you could tell the difference.

I'm getting tired of this influencer lingo.

Buy it, even if you can't tell a difference compared to any other synth out there.

Maybe this is how you mix , you mask everything with 12 plugins so listeners can't tell which synth you used... or you layer everything in which case no synth character is apparent so you can use whatever you have...

Also we can tell the difference comparing with all the rest P5 emulations but vs the hardware no one can the tell the difference, it's magic i tell you , trust me bro!!

And i bet you couldn't tell a difference from GF bass station vs GF P5 , no mix needed.

Btw you forgot to tell us if you can hear the difference , instead you try explain what others hear or not, gee thanks for letting us know!

Of course I can't tell the difference. That's kind of my point.

Look, here's the cold hard truth. If you make music (which is primarily what I've been doing for almost 50 years) none of the listeners out there give a shit what synth you used on your song. All they care about is if they like the song or not. If they don't like the song, you could use the best P-5 emulation or hardware unit for that matter and it don't mean shit. Who cares?

The majority (not all) of the people who nit pick about this shit either don't make music or are deluded into thinking that their listening audience can tell what synth they used or, for that matter, care.

That's why when I watch all these conversations about DACs and Unison and blah, blah, blah, I roll my eyes with boredom and bewilderment. Because again...

Who out there gives a shit?

If I like the way a synth sounds, regardless oof whether or not its "faithful" to the hardware, I buy it.

Are there exceptions? Sure. I recently bought an Electric Sitar vst because I wanted to do 60s garage rock. So they damn thing better sure as hell sound like an electric sitar or what's the point. I want my orchestral strings to sound as close to real strings as possible and not like a f**king string machine if I'm going to do convincing orchestral mockups.

There's a place for everything. I'm not going to use a P-5 to do a bluegrass tune.

I make music. I don't sit around comparing synth specs.

If you get off on doing that, great. But the people listening to your music, if you even make music, don't care.

And either do I.

[zvenx]

Pass on this one , unless osc sync is on it sounds hollow & flat......

You must have amazing ears..
GForce and Sequential spent months going back and forth , literally months between stable version and sound design ready version, getting the sound and behaviour just right....Sequential would want some things changed/calibrated/tweaked etc, Gforce would change, and that went on for months back and forth.
yet you could tell this in a few days..
Amazing.
rsp

[wagtunes]

Look, I can't make my point any clearer than with this example.

A few years ago, I did a CD of cover versions of some of my favorite songs of the 60s, 70s and 80s. If you listen to the originals and then listen to my covers, with the exception of my crappy voice, you couldn't tell the difference in the synth sounds. Do you think I actually own the synths these artists did their songs with? Of course not. But the emulations are so close, trust me, nobody could tell the difference.

For anybody who wants to listen.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... ler-kovers

Obviously this only applies to the tracks with synths. If you don't want to listen to the whole CD, listen to Love and Loneliness and then listen to the original. You'd swear I was using the same hardware units.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... loneliness

[abernathy]

One thing I love about Repro-5 is the notes with the presets. I went through the OG presets on various emulations thinking "wow that sounds hollow and static" - good example is "Low Strings". Then I noticed on Repro-5 it says to push mod wheel up a little... and then wow, it DOES sound like I imagine a Prophet 5 sounding. When I first tried this GForce version I had to remember to push the mod wheel a little on many presets to get the movement that was missing. I don't have the hardware, but I suspect this happens there too - why some folks are disappointed when they first hear it.

[abernathy]

And another thing I love about Repro-5... it's just such a well thought out instrument! U-he really goes all out on the usability. Like the Effects on/off always available and persistent. It appears that GForce doesn't even have a global effects switch? And what do the locks next to Reverb, etc. do? On my Mac version if I turn all the effects off and lock them, they turn back on (but still locked) on the next preset... am I missing what the lock is for?

[zvenx]

....... ha! And what do the locks next to Reverb, etc. do? On my Mac version if I turn all the effects off and lock them, they turn back on (but still locked) on the next preset... am I missing what the lock is for?

No, that is what it is suppose to do.. Mine works properly.
What format and DAW?
(i am on 26.5.1, apple silicon, Cubendo 15) and standalone
rsp

[Lbdunequest]

In a mix, none of you could tell the difference.

I'm getting tired of this influencer lingo.

Buy it, even if you can't tell a difference compared to any other synth out there.

Maybe this is how you mix , you mask everything with 12 plugins so listeners can't tell which synth you used... or you layer everything in which case no synth character is apparent so you can use whatever you have...

Also we can tell the difference comparing with all the rest P5 emulations but vs the hardware no one can the tell the difference, it's magic i tell you , trust me bro!!

And i bet you couldn't tell a difference from GF bass station vs GF P5 , no mix needed.

Btw you forgot to tell us if you can hear the difference , instead you try explain what others hear or not, gee thanks for letting us know!

Of course I can't tell the difference. That's kind of my point.

Look, here's the cold hard truth. If you make music (which is primarily what I've been doing for almost 50 years) none of the listeners out there give a shit what synth you used on your song. All they care about is if they like the song or not. If they don't like the song, you could use the best P-5 emulation or hardware unit for that matter and it don't mean shit. Who cares?

The majority (not all) of the people who nit pick about this shit either don't make music or are deluded into thinking that their listening audience can tell what synth they used or, for that matter, care.

That's why when I watch all these conversations about DACs and Unison and blah, blah, blah, I roll my eyes with boredom and bewilderment. Because again...

Who out there gives a shit?

If I like the way a synth sounds, regardless oof whether or not its "faithful" to the hardware, I buy it.

Are there exceptions? Sure. I recently bought an Electric Sitar vst because I wanted to do 60s garage rock. So they damn thing better sure as hell sound like an electric sitar or what's the point. I want my orchestral strings to sound as close to real strings as possible and not like a f**king string machine if I'm going to do convincing orchestral mockups.

There's a place for everything. I'm not going to use a P-5 to do a bluegrass tune.

I make music. I don't sit around comparing synth specs.

If you get off on doing that, great. But the people listening to your music, if you even make music, don't care.

And either do I.

Thats a very good point.

Talking about modern music, lets be real, most use Sylenth1 (still), Serum, Omnisphere, Nexus and Kontakt libraries.

And when it is said in a mix, means in a mix that at the same time 10 instruments are playing plus each bar 2 or 3 more instruments to make the song more interesting.

[abernathy]

....... ha! And what do the locks next to Reverb, etc. do? On my Mac version if I turn all the effects off and lock them, they turn back on (but still locked) on the next preset... am I missing what the lock is for?

No, that is what it is suppose to do.. Mine works properly.
What format and DAW?
(i am on 26.5.1, apple silicon, Cubendo 15) and standalone
rsp

Latest Logic Pro, Audio Units, macOS 26.5.1, Apple Silicon M1. Well good - I was hoping this was just a bug. And it seems random, but not sure. I'll ask GForce. Thanks!