Moving from FL Studio -> Bitwig 6 - Any reason to maybe consider Ableton?

[Rastkovic]

stuff like Strumming etc. should be possible without adding devices, I want to make a simple Piano/Guitarmelody with some basic strumming in the Piano Roll, not having to use a device. this is good for more complex melodies and mostly electronic music and ambient etc. i didnt find a BASIC strumming in the operator section as well, would be neat.

Well, you can always print midi data. That's how I used NI Reaktor and Ableton Live for many years. A bit different workflow, of course.

yesterday I was finding out that it seems a TRADITIONAL mixer isnt in Ableton, was odd but then I saw some advantages, you dont need to switch windows, but i like it maybe more like more traditional and bigger knobs etc like FL Studio and Bitwig is mixing both nicely (though the buigger faders etc. would be welcome). I might not get into the looks of Ableton though which might be th KO for it for me atm, so still Bitwig on the lead so far.

I guess you are using Live 11, at least that was solved in the 12 version.

live-12.png

[Fornicras]

As a previous FL user for about 6 years and Studio One user for about 4 years I'm looking to change as well.
FL Studio's beat creation (for R&B and trap) workflow was godly for me, but the thing it lost me was recording audio (vocals mostly) and mixing.
One thing I miss most is that you can pan the notes individually (for hi-hat rolls, etc) in a single sampler channel/track.
I don't think it's possible in any other DAW. Certainly not possible in Studio One.

Studio One, on the other hand, is perfect for audio and mixing, but it's too clunky for me to create beats with it, mostly because you have to work with a drum rack plugin or a sampler plugin for each drum sound you want to use. It certainly makes it harder to program drums fast, and it's not as intuitive as FL's channel rack, which I loved. Also, Studio One's MIDI editor is much worse than FL's.

Any idea how things are in Ableton according to what I explained above? Is it worth trying?

[Dionysos]

One thing I miss most is that you can pan the notes individually (for hi-hat rolls, etc) in a single sampler channel/track.
I don't think it's possible in any other DAW.

That's definitely possible in Bitwig with the built-in sampler using note expressions; it's not as simple to use as in FL (very fiddly if you're not using the expression overlay UI), but more powerful in principle.

[Trancit]

...
stuff like Strumming etc. should be possible without adding devices, I want to make a simple Piano/Guitarmelody with some basic strumming in the Piano Roll, not having to use a device. this is good for more complex melodies and mostly electronic music and ambient etc. i didnt find a BASIC strumming in the operator section as well, would be neat.

For me the biggest differences between using something like Midi Tools in Ableton or the Tools in FLS´ PR editor and Midi devices:
1. and foremost: changes are directly reflected in the Midi and I don´t have to record anything to a new track, replace my current clips etc...
Midi devices are cool for some stuff but for kind of "editing" Midi they aren´t convincing for me...
2. by using devices for such kind of "editing" it´s more or less "all or nothing"...
means I cannot easily select a few wished notes and add for example strumming just to them...
It´s possible in Bitwig but needs more complex setup...
With PR tools I can just select the wished notes and edit just them...

So for kind of experimental or generative stuff where I know I want to use this "effect" on all notes, Midi devices can be really great...
For "editing" or just selective processing of some notes they are too cumbersome for me...
Ableton leads here in this regard with offering this directly in the PR...

[Caine123]

...
stuff like Strumming etc. should be possible without adding devices, I want to make a simple Piano/Guitarmelody with some basic strumming in the Piano Roll, not having to use a device. this is good for more complex melodies and mostly electronic music and ambient etc. i didnt find a BASIC strumming in the operator section as well, would be neat.

For me the biggest differences between using something like Midi Tools in Ableton or the Tools in FLS´ PR editor and Midi devices:
1. and foremost: changes are directly reflected in the Midi and I don´t have to record anything to a new track, replace my current clips etc...
Midi devices are cool for some stuff but for kind of "editing" Midi they aren´t convincing for me...
2. by using devices for such kind of "editing" it´s more or less "all or nothing"...
means I cannot easily select a few wished notes and add for example strumming just to them...
It´s possible in Bitwig but needs more complex setup...
With PR tools I can just select the wished notes and edit just them...

So for kind of experimental or generative stuff where I know I want to use this "effect" on all notes, Midi devices can be really great...
For "editing" or just selective processing of some notes they are too cumbersome for me...
Ableton leads here in this regard with offering this directly in the PR...

I'm installing ableton 12 now, the demo version, 200 bucks to upgrade is too steep atm for me.

It just baffles me that you have no simple strumming, or i found out you cannot move a midi not up and down while holding left mouse button, you get locked in Bitwig, and seems the Bitwig community are kinda stubborn to have more options/give the user more options, which is sad as i was fully onto learning Bitwig further now but now im reconsidering and yeah going through everything in Ableton and comparing again. Ableton also has the Freeze function which might be another win for me. sadly i hate the look of Ableton, I needa see if i can really overlook it or if i just hate it and go back to Bitwig/FL Studio.

[Caine123]

stuff like Strumming etc. should be possible without adding devices, I want to make a simple Piano/Guitarmelody with some basic strumming in the Piano Roll, not having to use a device. this is good for more complex melodies and mostly electronic music and ambient etc. i didnt find a BASIC strumming in the operator section as well, would be neat.

Well, you can always print midi data. That's how I used NI Reaktor and Ableton Live for many years. A bit different workflow, of course.

yesterday I was finding out that it seems a TRADITIONAL mixer isnt in Ableton, was odd but then I saw some advantages, you dont need to switch windows, but i like it maybe more like more traditional and bigger knobs etc like FL Studio and Bitwig is mixing both nicely (though the buigger faders etc. would be welcome). I might not get into the looks of Ableton though which might be th KO for it for me atm, so still Bitwig on the lead so far.

I guess you are using Live 11, at least that was solved in the 12 version.


live-12.png

thanks a lot, I'm installing Ableton 12 Demo now, as my Upgrade for 200 bucks is too steep atm, really disappointed that Bitwig lacks some basic options..... after so many years I didnt expect it.

[Rastkovic]

really disappointed that Bitwig lacks some basic options..... after so many years I didnt expect it.

stuff like Strumming etc. should be possible without adding devices, I want to make a simple Piano/Guitarmelody with some basic strumming in the Piano Roll, not having to use a device. this is good for more complex melodies and mostly electronic music and ambient etc. i didnt find a BASIC strumming in the operator section as well, would be neat.

You might not yet be fully familiar of doing things the Bitwig and (originally) the Ableton way. Every parameter of the Midi FX devices is intended to be played, or modulated. Even the on/off switch. Simply automate it within the midi clip.

I'm actually pretty happy, that the Bitwig guys have a clear concept in their mind and doesn't try to please everyone. YMMV

[MrJubbly]

I just watched the video about the new updates in FL Studio 2026...



Gotta be completely honest here. This is probably the most underwhelming update I can ever remember for this DAW.

The video is 20+ minutes long and it features barely anything I will be using and most of the stuff that they have shoehorned in, I would remove in an instant, given the option to. It's just crammed with a whole load of either nothingburgers, or else completely unwanted bloat and slop to further convolute the software, when they should be trying to streamline and improve its features and workflows instead.

FL Studio's development seems to be steering in completely the wrong direction under their current (ex-Native Instruments) CEO, if these recent releases under his leadership are anything to go by.

Bitwig Studio is looking better and better by each passing day. I may need to seriously give that DAW a chance in future. Their developers seem really forward-thinking by comparison.

[Caine123]

I just watched the video about the new updates in FL Studio 2026...



Gotta be completely honest here. This is probably the most underwhelming update I can ever remember for this DAW.

The video is 20+ minutes long and it features barely anything I will be using and most of the stuff that they have shoehorned in, I would remove in an instant, given the option to. It's just crammed with a whole load of either nothingburgers, or else completely unwanted bloat and slop to further convolute the software, when they should be trying to streamline and improve its features and workflows instead.

FL Studio's development seems to be steering in completely the wrong direction under their current (ex-Native Instruments) CEO, if these recent releases under his leadership are anything to go by.

Bitwig Studio is looking better and better by each passing day. I may need to seriously give that DAW a chance in future. Their developers seem really forward-thinking by comparison.

yup, and thats why I consider Bitwig and/or Ableton now. Just need to see how productive/inspiring these are for me. Muscle memory etc. is of course heavily for FL Studio over 10 years.... but just spending over 2 weeks with Bitwig makes Ableton's trial easier to understand. Ableton is so ugly for my taste but the stronger Piano Roll/Midi tools and the Freeze function make me undecided to use this or Bitwig further first. Bitwig on the other hand is just more appealing GUI wise, the modulation is really great, the automations seems also easier and i like the more traditional mixer view as well. but i use the Piano roll in FL Studio so much it can be a pain and uninspiring in Bitwig.... the cumbersome "freeze" version of Bitwig isnt such a disaster. coming from FL Studio nearly everything is better as FL Studio doesnt have such a function at all.

[Fornicras]

At the least, they don't charge for the updates. Studio One charges for updates when there is barely anything worth updating.

[Trancit]

At the least, they don't charge for the updates. Studio One charges for updates when there is barely anything worth updating.

Huge difference though!

You can sell S1 and refuse to pay for an update to vote with your wallet...
If enough people are unhappy with what they came up with, the company will notice the lesser income and "eventually" rethinking what they are doing... at least there is a chance of it...

FLS is (by violating EU law) forbidding reselling second hand licenses and you cannot vote with your wallet in any way in terms of updates...
With these 2 measures they have taken out of hand the only 2 ways a user can express any unhappiness...
I don´t mind paying a little amount here and there if I think what they came up with would justify it but I like being able to refuse it... to vote!

If FLS updates would cost money they never ever would have come up with an update which contains 90% hot air like this V26 version...
Most of the changes are so minor they wouldn´t have been listed if there would have been enough other things in there but there weren´t...
And so things like changing "Don´t ask me again" to "Remember my choice" became the headline for this update...
Real changes aren´t possible because of too many technical limitations... after meanwhile 6-8 years of claimed rewriting there is absolute ZERO sign of it, which make me doubt if they are still at it or have silently given up like Ableton did...
Sadly the innovative times of FLS are long gone and it turned into a "kiddie one click does it all with AI freak show" for the lazy and unaware and have already clearly stated that this is where they see their future... nothing I can support anymore...

[Caine123]

Had a long session yesterday with Ableton 12.... shit this doesnt make it easier hahahaha.

Still need time, I really like the midi tools in Ableton 12, they are fantastic! And the Freeze function is such a bliss!!!!!

so for now!

Bitwig
- better automations it seems
- Modulation concept is easy and so awesome to use! even for VSTs like Serum 2 which have a lot of mod options
- the mixer is better/it has a more old school mixer view with showing the effects etc, i prefer this a lot
- the overall GUI etc. i like more here
- Hybrid Tracks is a great feature!!! check this
- (maybe the Sandboxig, but no long run experience!)
- not much experience but maybe the Audio Editing has some advantages, but just marginal it seems

Ableton
- M4L - not creating myself stuff but all the modules available, different from the grid but better it seems for practical use!
- Freeze option
- much better Piano Roll + Midi Tools (you cannot even have a simple Strum in Bitwig for selected Midi notes, just bad)
- small maybe but still the Scale Highlighting and fit options are better here

thats for my cases atm, both have more features i guess i didnt even check. im still so undecided, i tend to Bitwig maybe, but the Piano Roll is my biggest gripe I dunno if this might be a fiddly and uninspiring for writing tracks and in Ableton 12 you can have fast note adjustments and HAPPY ACCIDENTS with all the tools ASAP!
If Bitwig team would add some more "standard" piano roll features it would be even enough for me but who knows if they will do it or not....
good thing it seems, if you lern one of those DAWs they seem kinda similar so you dont have a steep learning curve like coming from FL Studio.

At the least, they don't charge for the updates. Studio One charges for updates when there is barely anything worth updating.

i think 2 ways on it.

1. this MIGHT be one of the best investments, i for one never regret buying the whole package, one of the things is the lifetime upgrades. you can also pause using FL Studio and use another DAW or something else and get back and check new versions without having to pay more .

2. just my assumption, this way the updates could/are lacking sadly with this procedure.

so it is what it is, i ran out of having high hopes for FL Studio anymore and take it like it is, a great DAW with big lacking holes and too many years of "it takes more time"...

At the least, they don't charge for the updates. Studio One charges for updates when there is barely anything worth updating.

Huge difference though!

You can sell S1 and refuse to pay for an update to vote with your wallet...
If enough people are unhappy with what they came up with, the company will notice the lesser income and "eventually" rethinking what they are doing... at least there is a chance of it...

FLS is (by violating EU law) forbidding reselling second hand licenses and you cannot vote with your wallet in any way in terms of updates...
With these 2 measures they have taken out of hand the only 2 ways a user can express any unhappiness...
I don´t mind paying a little amount here and there if I think what they came up with would justify it but I like being able to refuse it... to vote!

If FLS updates would cost money they never ever would have come up with an update which contains 90% hot air like this V26 version...
Most of the changes are so minor they wouldn´t have been listed if there would have been enough other things in there but there weren´t...
And so things like changing "Don´t ask me again" to "Remember my choice" became the headline for this update...
Real changes aren´t possible because of too many technical limitations... after meanwhile 6-8 years of claimed rewriting there is absolute ZERO sign of it, which make me doubt if they are still at it or have silently given up like Ableton did...
Sadly the innovative times of FLS are long gone and it turned into a "kiddie one click does it all with AI freak show" for the lazy and unaware and have already clearly stated that this is where they see their future... nothing I can support anymore...

yes exactly, you know my opinion maybe, i for myself take it for what it is and am not spending to get grey hairs for that anymore

oh and having to also make some joke in the video for the request i did (i am glad they added the option and dont take it bad or something) to have wider rename labels but with the same "joke" mentioning in the video just a tiny bit so you can still complain, like in the changes notes is kinda missing the point of the joke, why invite more complaints, somehow i feel it is nice and having some cool communication with jokes which i really like, makes them more humans but same time why not professionally imrpove your program and make things not complainable .

[Trancit]

... somehow i feel it is nice and having some cool communication with jokes which i really like, makes them more humans ...

... I have to agree here and sometimes I am feeling a bit guilty being unsure if I simply expect too much...
One of my biggest problems when trying to leave FLS is... sympathy...

- Sympathy with the company and how they behaved in the past... "they were always fair" doesn´t hit the nail... it´s actually much more... mostly they were very generous tbh...
With the all plugin version they always stated that would be about the plugins out to the moment you buy... but until now everything new was always included for free nonetheless...

- Sympathy with the individuals working in this company... there are very rarely companies communicating with their customers that much...
More the opposite... propellerheads closed their forum, Presonus closed their forum...

- Sympathy with the looks, behaviour, feel and many great features of the product itself...

Hard to ignore... they really managed to build a "brand" with a "fan base" where many users are actually emotionally involved...
For me in the past, this was often reason enough to further accept technical shortcomings and leaning towards FLS again when trying to escape...
It's already a kind of like an addiction

Even if I freaked out a bit about the possibility with stealing peoples work in my "Gopher and privacy" thread at looptalk... at the bottom of my heart I would never think/believe they would really do it... I just wanted to force these concerns because they just created the threat itself and imho dealt with it a bit too "easy" ...like "yes, we are taking your data and sending them to us, but hey, you can trust us!"
That´s something I wished they would have thought about a bit deeper and don´t act like "surprise, surprise" if someone is concerned about privacy...

[Caine123]

... somehow i feel it is nice and having some cool communication with jokes which i really like, makes them more humans ...

... I have to agree here and sometimes I am feeling a bit guilty being unsure if I simply expect too much...
One of my biggest problems when trying to leave FLS is... sympathy...

- Sympathy with the company and how they behaved in the past... "they were always fair" doesn´t hit the nail... it´s actually much more... mostly they were very generous tbh...
With the all plugin version they always stated that would be about the plugins out to the moment you buy... but until now everything new was always included for free nonetheless...

- Sympathy with the individuals working in this company... there are very rarely companies communicating with their customers that much...
More the opposite... propellerheads closed their forum, Presonus closed their forum...

- Sympathy with the looks, behaviour, feel and many great features of the product itself...

Hard to ignore... they really managed to build a "brand" with a "fan base" where many users are actually emotionally involved...
For me in the past, this was often reason enough to further accept technical shortcomings and leaning towards FLS again when trying to escape...
It's already a kind of like an addiction

Even if I freaked out a bit about the possibility with stealing peoples work in my "Gopher and privacy" thread at looptalk... at the bottom of my heart I would never think/believe they would really do it... I just wanted to force these concerns because they just created the threat itself and imho dealt with it a bit too "easy" ...like "yes, we are taking your data and sending them to us, but hey, you can trust us!"
That´s something I wished they would have thought about a bit deeper and don´t act like "surprise, surprise" if someone is concerned about privacy...

fully understand you !!!

yeah i also wrote with Ableton and Bitwig and it was just basic mail correspondence, nothing more. sometimes better or not but thats where i love IL and its community. how much insights you/we get, i never saw that they blocked someone, got bad habitted even when being more offensive but constructive they didnt respond in a bad manner. this is such a huge plus for me.

also the topic in Looptalk about Bitwig/Ableton isnt meant to upset them or lay needles or whatever, it is the real hand to hand experience from me while testing the other DAWs, maybe this gives them ideas and other users as well. sometimes it seems some devs/companies dont know other products as well as i thought .
+ maybe also experiences to share from other users i take into consideration.

well for me im decided, i stay with FL Studio forever (lifetime free upgrades hahaha) and will still use it of course but maybe not primarily in future anymore and i dont expect anything anymore so i can only get surprised by IL!

i also decided to choose Ableton and/or Bitwig and not start with any other DAW additionally, Studio One (still got a license), Reaper (also have it but mehr too much work getting into it it seems) etc.

[Trancit]

...
Bitwig
- better automations it seems
...

What do you let think, automation would be better in Bitwig?

Ableton
...

Btw... about the "classical Mixer" view...
I don´t know if you are aware of it:
Ableton can show the devices like Bitwig too...
It´s just a "secret" option via the Options.txt file ...
I never had much use for it and cannot tell you how well this works though...

Setup:

You can reveal a hidden device slots view in Ableton's mixer by creating an Options.txt file and adding -ShowDeviceSlots. This handy trick lets you see, bypass, and open plugins directly on your tracks without opening the full device chain.

How to set it up:
Open a simple text editor (like Notepad on Windows or TextEdit on Mac).
Type exactly -ShowDeviceSlots on the first line. Save it as a plain text file named Options.txt.
Place this file inside your specific Ableton version's Preferences folder.Restart Ableton.

File Paths by Operating System:
Windows: \Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\Live x.x.x\Preferences\.
macOS: /Users/[username]/Library/Preferences/Ableton/Live x.x.x/.

How to use it in Ableton:
Live 11: A new icon appears in the bottom right corner of Session View to toggle the device slots.
Live 12: Go to the View menu, select Mixer Controls, and click Device Slots.