Moving from FL Studio -> Bitwig 6 - Any reason to maybe consider Ableton?

[Rastkovic]

Bitwig Studio is looking better and better by each passing day. I may need to seriously give that DAW a chance in future. Their developers seem really forward-thinking by comparison.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm not fully understand why you guys want to switch. From the things I see, FL Studio seems to be a bit special. It is also the question, how you want to use Bitwig Studio. The modulation ecosystem makes much more sense with Bitwig instruments, like Polymer, Poly Grid, Phase-4, or the Sampler. For example, you can do audiorate modulation with any parameter, but you can't do that with VST parameters. A VST (or CLAP) plugin is an external instrument, the modulations are handled not in the exact same way and most of the time, not with the same resolution. Sometimes, I also had glitches because of "micro" latency inside the VST (when I used more complex, beat sync modulations), never had this issues with Bitwigs on-board instruments.

So, if you mainly want to use plugins like Serum, Vital, or Zebra, that is certainly possible, but you miss a lot of the benefits in my opinion. The difference between Bitwig Studio, Ableton Live and FL Studio is then, probably not that big in my opinion.

The Session View (non-linear sequencing) and the Device Chain (including the Racks) was and is one of the biggest differences between Bitwig/Ableton and FL Studio/other DAWs. Ask yourself, how important is that to you.

[Trancit]

... The difference between Bitwig Studio, Ableton Live and FL Studio is then, probably not that big in my opinion.
...

I don´t know if you really know FL Studio and it surely depends what you want to do respectively what are your needs but for me personally no matter if I use modulations or not, the difference is not just huge but gigantic...
- groups in groups...
- proper freeze
- unloading of instruments from RAM not just CPU
- saving clips with all containing data with browser preview
- (Ableton) saving complete tracks or even groups with all containing data
- much much much much (repeat that 20 times) easier automation
- (Bitwig) ability to create a "Listen" track for plugins not affecting the render
- (Bitwig) plugin sandboxing
- in general: 5 clicks in FLS are 1 click in the other two...
- automatic tempo detection for user samples
- 100 tons of better audio workflow
- 100 tons of better recording workflow
- both have much much better and easier modulations
- M4L and proper extensions with a useable GUI compared to FLS wonky script system where you look at 100 mysterious knobs with wild scales
- Tracks and Groups in the Arranger and Mixer have the same order and are placed correctly when added newly
- moving groups and tracks don´t mess up sidechain routing
- ...
I stop here... this would be a book with 10 successors to name just what these for me personally do better...

If I want to do crazy stuff like audio rate modulation, I am fine to use Bitwig internals or internals of the matching VST/i´s... FLS cannot do better anyway so definetely nothing lost

There is of course a lot what FLS does better than the other two... no question...
But for me these are either the more unimportant stuff or can be replaced with plugins... so not a big loss for me...
I am (other than Caine...) even fine with their PR Editors as I am already quite used to them...

So it heavily depends on your personal preferences...
How goes the saying: There is no perfect DAW... there is just the one that bothers you the least!

[Caine123]

... The difference between Bitwig Studio, Ableton Live and FL Studio is then, probably not that big in my opinion.
...

I don´t know if you really know FL Studio and it surely depends what you want to do respectively what are your needs but for me personally no matter if I use modulations or not, the difference is not just huge but gigantic...
- groups in groups...
- proper freeze
- unloading of instruments from RAM not just CPU
- saving clips with all containing data with browser preview
- (Ableton) saving complete tracks or even groups with all containing data
- much much much much (repeat that 20 times) easier automation
- (Bitwig) ability to create a "Listen" track for plugins not affecting the render
- (Bitwig) plugin sandboxing
- in general: 5 clicks in FLS are 1 click in the other two...
- automatic tempo detection for user samples
- 100 tons of better audio workflow
- 100 tons of better recording workflow
- both have much much better and easier modulations
- M4L and proper extensions with a useable GUI compared to FLS wonky script system where you look at 100 mysterious knobs with wild scales
- Tracks and Groups in the Arranger and Mixer have the same order and are placed correctly when added newly
- moving groups and tracks don´t mess up sidechain routing
- ...
I stop here... this would be a book with 10 successors to name just what these for me personally do better...

If I want to do crazy stuff like audio rate modulation, I am fine to use Bitwig internals or internals of the matching VST/i´s... FLS cannot do better anyway so definetely nothing lost

There is of course a lot what FLS does better than the other two... no question...
But for me these are either the more unimportant stuff or can be replaced with plugins... so not a big loss for me...
I am (other than Caine...) even fine with their PR Editors as I am already quite used to them...

So it heavily depends on your personal preferences...
How goes the saying: There is no perfect DAW... there is just the one that bothers you the least!

again spot on

Trancit can you please elaborate what these are? I googled those but couldnt find what you mean.
- (Bitwig) ability to create a "Listen" track for plugins not affecting the render

and another question do you decide Ableton / Bitwig yet, what are your points against one and the other and how do you like the Piano Roll in Ableton and Bitwig. I think if Bitwig would have a better Piano Roll already with some strum and other midi tools + a better brush and pen i would not rethink with Ableton so far.
also whats annoying and i hope this doesnt disturb me much is there is no autonumbering for duplicate instance names....

[pdxindy]

So, if you mainly want to use plugins like Serum, Vital, or Zebra, that is certainly possible, but you miss a lot of the benefits in my opinion. The difference between Bitwig Studio, Ableton Live and FL Studio is then, probably not that big in my opinion.

I mainly use u-he synths (Zebra 3, Bazille, Diva and ACE). The CLAP versions integrate brilliantly with Bitwig's modulation and Note Expressions.

With the Channel-16 modulator, I can create sound variations per midi channel. Notes on midi ch#3 can have one sound, ch#2 a different sound, etc.

If I want to hold a chord and then have each note pan over time in a specific way, easy and direct to do with the Pan Note Expression. Same with the Gain Expression. I can draw gain curves on any note and since the expressions are polyphonic, it doesn't matter if notes overlap.

If I want to add an extra per voice LFO or two to Diva? Easy with Bitwig's poly modulation. It's like having V2 of Diva.

All of these Bitwig capabilities are unmatched by any other DAW and since this functionality happens to be valuable to me, there is basically zero chance I would even consider switching DAW's.

[Rastkovic]

I mainly use u-he synths (Zebra 3, Bazille, Diva and ACE). The CLAP versions integrate brilliantly with Bitwig's modulation and Note Expressions.

Have you compared the modulation "sound results" of the CLAP plugins with the Bitwig instruments? Especially when using note sync or phase reset, is the smoothness the same, are there no clicks? What is the maximum speed, at which Bitwig LFOs can modulate targets in CLAP plugins? Does voice stacking in Zebra and Hive finally work?

I don't deny that there are some advantages, but per voice modulation is somewhat special. Anyway, I hope the meaning of my post was clear, the Bitwig modulation ecosystem work so well with Bitwig instruments, especially with the Grid. With Zebra and Serum I would prefer the internal plugin modulation possibilities.

[Rastkovic]

I don´t know if you really know FL Studio and it surely depends what you want to do respectively what are your needs but for me personally no matter if I use modulations or not, the difference is not just huge but gigantic...

If the difference is "gigantic", why did you use FL Studio for probably years and why is it now "unusable"? That was my question.

Honestly, I don't understand your listing of features. The most important thing of a DAW to me is the workflow. Second in importance, is how the DAW manufacturer handles bug fixes and drives innovations. No plugin sandboxing was definitely not reason to leave Ableton Live.

[EnGee]

I would go with what's more comfortable to you depending on Workflow, GUI and stability. Features are important if you are using them daily and your workflow is depending on them, but just they are there if you need them, is not a good reason to favour one tool over another.

I, personally, sold Live (suite 12) and kept Bitwig (still on 5). There are shortcomings with Bitwig (for me) but I can tolerate them. Bitwig is more comfortable and pleasant for me to work with. I have my plugins, so I'm not depending on Bitwig's devices.

Do I miss Ableton Live now? Not really!

[pdxindy]

Have you compared the modulation "sound results" of the CLAP plugins with the Bitwig instruments?

Audio rate modulation I would leave to a plugin synths internal modulation.

Much of the time, I want an additional Env/LFO or two. Or to use a specific Env shape (MSEG) that I cannot make with the simple modulators in say Diva. For such use cases, Bitwig's modulators work great.

Then there are a bunch of parameters in Bazille, Ace, Diva and Repro that are not modulatable by the synths own modulators. With Bitwig's Poly Mod, I can modulate those parameters per voice. This opens up sound design possibilities not possible in the synth itself. It's like having an XL version of my favorite synths!

Likewise, I can do stuff with Bitwig modulators like ParSeq-8 and Channel-16 (and others) that aren't possible in the synths themselves. Combine that with the u-he CLAP synths supporting Bitwig's Note Expressions and it makes a fantastic set of tools.

For someone else, this stuff may not matter to them. For me, it is essential and not available in any other DAW. Fortunately for me, Bitwig also happens to have a workflow I find enjoyable and efficient for starting with an idea for a composition and seeing it through to completion.