UVI Rumble: multiband bass Synthesizer

[BONES]

"Maybe they want it for sidechaining a part of the signal, processing the bands differently during mixing, adding different effects, using different sends or whatever - what does any of that have to do with the factory patches?"

Oh, you thought you were telling us something that wasn't so f**king obvious that you thought we might have missed it? OK, suffice to say that those are things you can do to anything, at any time, kind of "Mixing 101". What you failed to address is how that would make Rumble better. Again, I was using the factory patches to illustrate that you can already do so much, enough to keep anyone busy for ages. And if it's not enough for you, then there are plenty of other synths you can try when you run up against the limitations of this one. That's why most of us have more than one synth we use. Every instrument doesn't have to be able to do every possible thing you can think of that you might want to do. I reckon that's precisely why UVI have positioned this as a "bass" synth, to remind us that it's not meant to be a jack-of-all-trades like PhasePlant or Massive X or Zebra.

Do you really not understand that sidechaining is a mix-related example?

Do you really not understand that you can sidechain Rumble just fine as it is?

People for instance want to sidechain the subbass to the kick, but not necessarily the higher frequencies.

That's why we have multi-band compressors. If you've never tried one, you should, they can be really handy.

[chagzuki]

The free-running LFOs would, obviously, make little or no difference to anything. As I said, to me the LFOs seem very full-featured as they are. I don't even know why you'd want free-running LFOs, except maybe to hide sloppy playing (which would actually benefit me quite a bit).

It might be correct to think that this synth is mainly aimed at producers of bass music... I'm not actually familiar enough with those genres to use such terms with confidence. What I notice in the presets is that they're generally well-suited to single hit type of basslines (not really a 'line', more of a hit). That's what one would expect from a synth that has a lack of LFO options and no free-running: if you want to write baselines that are more traditional in nature and have longer melodic phrases, the lack of a degree of organic movement in timbre stands out as a problem.

You make music of an industrial aesthetic, so it's likely that you very much like and want staccato machine-like repetition in bass sounds, that's part of the style. But that doesn't work well in other genres or styles.

So, what options are there in Rumble as it currently stands to add some controlled organic shifts in timbre? Perhaps a little more can be achieved with the analog drift modulator than I'm currently imagining (but it lacks the control/predictability of LFOs), and perhaps one can write baselines with very intentional use of legato. Maybe there's something else I've missed.
In my case, it looks like around 80% of my use cases are not currently possible in Rumble, which means that I don't get to experiment with the three band architecture in those instances.

UVI can decide whether to add some functionality, in my case it would mean I could use the synth in something like 4x the scenarios that I can currently. So it would seem that a very small addition to the LFOs could increase potential utility by a very large amount, depending on what percentage of the market have bass requirements similar to mine. Since I've not done any market research I'm not making any claim as to what would 'obviously' be useful to a large percentage of users, I could only take an educated guess. If the market is only likely to consist mostly of bass music producers, perhaps like yourself they will find the LFOs fine as they are, and that might be just fine for UVI's sales numbers. On the other hand, perhaps UVI can generate more sales and reach a larger market with a very minor upgrade. I hope the latter is the case.

Incidentally, Minimal Audio's LFO implementation in Current is great, with a parameter to add randomness. Simple to use and powerful.

[Hipster Bales]

"Maybe they want it for sidechaining a part of the signal, processing the bands differently during mixing, adding different effects, using different sends or whatever - what does any of that have to do with the factory patches?"

Oh, you thought you were telling us something that wasn't so f**king obvious that you thought we might have missed it? OK, suffice to say that those are things you can do to anything, at any time, kind of "Mixing 101". What you failed to address is how that would make Rumble better. Again, I was using the factory patches to illustrate that you can already do so much, enough to keep anyone busy for ages. And if it's not enough for you, then there are plenty of other synths you can try when you run up against the limitations of this one. That's why most of us have more than one synth we use. Every instrument doesn't have to be able to do every possible thing you can think of that you might want to do. I reckon that's precisely why UVI have positioned this as a "bass" synth, to remind us that it's not meant to be a jack-of-all-trades like PhasePlant or Massive X or Zebra.

Do you really not understand that sidechaining is a mix-related example?

Do you really not understand that you can sidechain Rumble just fine as it is?

People for instance want to sidechain the subbass to the kick, but not necessarily the higher frequencies.

That's why we have multi-band compressors. If you've never tried one, you should, they can be really handy.

Dude calm down, he was just making a suggestion.

I get that you don't like it, but don't throw a kiddy tantrum over it.

[metaside]

I'm not gonna answer anymore because no dev deserves this type of whatever it is in a thread about a product.

I hope the synth is successful and I'm looking forward to any kind of update!

[Hipster Bales]

I'm not gonna answer anymore because no dev deserves this type of whatever it is in a thread about a product.

I hope the synth is successful and I'm looking forward to any kind of update!

Can't argue with you there metaside! like people don't need to be mean and berate others over a synth. It's incredibly immature (15-year-old saying this btw) and just plain annoying.

[BONES]

It might be correct to think that this synth is mainly aimed at producers of bass music... I'm not actually familiar enough with those genres to use such terms with confidence.

What are you talking about? Most of us have basslines in our music, regardless of genre. I/We sure as hell don't make anything from any of those genres but I've still managed to make improvements in more than half-a-dozen of our songs by putting Rumble into them. Its snappy envelopes are a gift.

What I notice in the presets is that they're generally well-suited to single hit type of basslines (not really a 'line', more of a hit).

Yeah, I've been going through and removing a lot of that from the patches I like or might have uses for, turning them into growly, moving pads and leads. The actual bassline type sounds I've been making from scratch.

That's what one would expect from a synth that has a lack of LFO options and no free-running: if you want to write baselines that are more traditional in nature and have longer melodic phrases, the lack of a degree of organic movement in timbre stands out as a problem.

Except that it's not, as there are 4 LFOS plus an LFO Mixer, which is something I have never seen before on any other synth, plus 3 random generators, 2 MSEGs that can loop and analog drift that can be applied freely. That is more options for your "degree of organic movement in timbre" than pretty much any other synth I own. It's laughable that you'd say what you said. Absolutely laughable.

You make music of an industrial aesthetic, so it's likely that you very much like and want staccato machine-like repetition in bass sounds, that's part of the style. But that doesn't work well in other genres or styles.

Lucky, then, that it's a synthesiser and it can sound however you want it to sound.

So, what options are there in Rumble as it currently stands to add some controlled organic shifts in timbre?

See above. If you want a number, there are 11 of them, all up, not including the per-band effects, some of which can also be used for that kind of thing.

In my case, it looks like around 80% of my use cases are not currently possible in Rumble, which means that I don't get to experiment with the three band architecture in those instances.

Give us an example. As I've said, the only use I can see for free-running LFOs is so that you can play a note late and the modulation will still be in time.

UVI can decide whether to add some functionality, in my case it would mean I could use the synth in something like 4x the scenarios that I can currently. So it would seem that a very small addition to the LFOs could increase potential utility by a very large amount, depending on what percentage of the market have bass requirements similar to mine.

Sorry, I still don't see why that is. It's a single function that makes no difference 99% of the time. I wouldn't even know how many of my synths have free-running LFOs, it's never been a consideration for me. What have I been missing?

Minimal Audio's LFO implementation in Current is great, with a parameter to add randomness. Simple to use and powerful.

You could do that through the LFO mixer or using any of the three random generators on top of an LFO, couldn't you? Or maybe with an MSEG?

[chagzuki]

It's laughable that you'd say what you said. Absolutely laughable.

No, the poll is in. The world has agreed that you don't know what an LFO is, and that everything you post on forums is officially moronic. I'm afraid it's official, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Just accept that it's the official verdict. The certificate is in the post.

Unfortunately UVI has to live with the problem that the most vocal praise for this synth comes from someone who doesn't have any skills other than insulting people on forums. It's a bad look, and UVI probably ought to pay you to stop the negative publicity.

Fun talking with you, as ever.

[Hipster Bales]

It's laughable that you'd say what you said. Absolutely laughable.

No, the poll is in. The world has agreed that you don't know what an LFO is, and that everything you post on forums is officially moronic. I'm afraid it's official, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Just accept that it's the official verdict. The certificate is in the post.

Unfortunately UVI has to live with the problem that the most vocal praise for this synth comes from someone who doesn't have any skills other than insulting people on forums. It's a bad look, and UVI probably ought to pay you to stop the negative publicity.

Fun talking with you, as ever.

+1 chagzuki

BONES, an LFO (low-frequency oscillator) is an oscillator that, instead of generating sounds, modulates the sounds of another (e.g. a dubstep wobble uses an LFO on the filter cutoff, etc)

and yes, you insult everybody all the time. You insulted me for comparing and AI mix vs a human mix, and you decided to bring genre/emotion into it, even though I wasn't bothered about genres or how emotion worked (you don't need vocals to express emotion), I was bothered about mixes. BIG difference there mate.

[Hipster Bales]

What are you talking about? Most of us have basslines in our music, regardless of genre. I/We sure as hell don't make anything from any of those genres but I've still managed to make improvements in more than half-a-dozen of our songs by putting Rumble into them.

Yes, we have basslines in a lot of genres. Bass music is multiple genres where bass is the main instrument, and that's what chagzuki was talking about. Take a look at UK dubstep (Skream, Rusko, etc), or some Drum 'n' Bass (DJ Fresh, Pendulum, etc). That's what he means by bass music.

[BONES]

No, the poll is in. The world has agreed that you don't know what an LFO is, and that everything you post on forums is officially moronic. I'm afraid it's official, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Just accept that it's the official verdict. The certificate is in the post.

Yet it is you who is unable to provide any clarity on your position. Seriously, I have no idea why you have issues with Rumble, it has amazing modulation options but you're carrying on as though it completely useless.

Unfortunately UVI has to live with the problem that the most vocal praise for this synth comes from someone who doesn't have any skills other than insulting people on forums.

I don't think that's a terribly fair estimation of Venus Theory. AFAIK he doesn't post on forums at all, but he sure does like Rumble. (To be fair, it feels like he is being paid for his opinion but he doesn't seem like someone who'd compromise his principles for money.)

Fun talking with you, as ever.

And, as ever, a complete waste of both our time. Probably UVI's, too, given that you haven't made a use-case for them to allocate resources into making the change you've asked for.

Just to be clear, though, when you say "free-running" do you mean an LFO that oscillates continuously from the time the engine starts running (when you press play in your DAW), as opposed to being re-triggered when you press a key, or do you mean an LFO that is not sync'd to host tempo? I have assumed it is the former, because Rumble can definitely do the latter, but now I am wondering if you might have missed that fact. Your reluctance to go into any detail means I can't be sure but it's possible we have been talking about different things. If we are talking about the same thing, though, I would really like to know how/when/why you use it because I don't see any point to it, beyond the one thing I've mentioned before.

and yes, you insult everybody all the time.

If that's what you think, I'd suggest it's the result of an overly high opinion of yourself. e.g. I found Chagzuki's post mildly humourous, I am not in any way, shape or form insulted by it.

You insulted me for comparing and AI mix vs a human mix

No, I dismissed your opinion as worthless in the context of the discussion, the examples provided that prove the fallacy of your position and my own first-hand experience. If you chose to be insulted by that, it's on you.

... you decided to bring genre/emotion into it, even though I wasn't bothered about genres or how emotion worked (you don't need vocals to express emotion), I was bothered about mixes. BIG difference there mate.

No, you got all defensive because I thought your music was worthless shite and now you're taking your personal grudge to another thread. It's kind of sad, really. You need to get over yourself.

Even now you are talking rubbish. I think it was proven reasonably conclusively that you really do need vocals to convey any kind of deeply felt emotion, given that nobody had a clue what your piece of music was about, let alone how you might have felt about the subject.

Yes, we have basslines in a lot of genres.

Not just "a lot" but pretty much every genre, even ambient.

Bass music is multiple genres where bass is the main instrument, and that's what chagzuki was talking about.

There are no such genres. Even in classic EBM, a-la Nitzer Ebb, where the whole song could just be a bassline, drums and vocals, the drums are always more prominent than the bassline. The same is true of sub-genres like Drum & Bass. You could say that bass is more prominent but it's never really the main instrument. OTOH, The Cure's Primary is a great example in a genre where basslines are generally more prominent and drive the songs. As a genre, Post Punk is easily as bass-driven as D&B or any of those other joke sub-genres of EDM. Just listen to some Gang Of Four (old style) or Moving Units (contemporary Post Punk). Perhaps you're too focused on one genre to see that there is a whole world of music out there you know nothing about?

I just listened to a bit of Skream, Pendulum and Rusko and I can't say the bass sounded any more prominent in any of that than it does in our music. I noticed that most of the stuff on Youtube is 15 years old or more, except for some recent Pendulum stuff that was a whole band on stage playing fairly "normal" sort of music. So if that's the audience Rumble is chasing, they may have missed the boat.

[Hipster Bales]

Alright BONES, you’ve just proven my point about you insulting others even more.

And also, if you didn't focus on trying to prove that it's only lyrics that convey emotion rather than tension, release and chord progressions (which is not always the case, take a look at trance music, then you'll know), then maybe we'd be on the same page.

[chagzuki]

I found Chagzuki's post mildly humourous, I am not in any way, shape or form insulted by it.

That's the spirit. We have to keep ourselves entertained.

[chagzuki]

not including the per-band effects, some of which can also be used for that kind of thing.

I think your account has been hacked, because whoever wrote that actually made a reasonable point. The neuro FX is quite nice, isn't it? It does cater for some sweep requirements, with a concise set of controls. So that helps.