Tracktion Software

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:42 am

HansM wrote:And why not DK+ instead of RMIV?

That would have been quite nice.

I also want a nice upgrade price, but I think we'll be very lucky to see it at $50.

On think I think worth mentioning is that T1 was underpriced. If Mackie had owned it when it was originally marketed, I would bet it would have been at least $100 if not $129.95. So $199 seems in line with what I expected from Mackie.

Definitely still hoping for a big early-adopter price break though. That and loop support will help determine if I upgrade.

nuisance sonore · Post by **nuisance sonore** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:47 am

Greg, you're of the opinion that T2 current price is not only fair but, to quote you, "a great bargain".
I say fine, that's your opinion, but it's just that: an opinion, and you're entitled to have one; but I do think that aldi, and others, who seems to think that it's not such a good deal are entitled to their own opinion also, even if they are contrary to yours.

I don't think for one minute that, to quote you again, they "missed the boat"; what I do think is that they've read the feature list as it is displayed now and voiced their impression of it. To that I say good, bring it on that I agree with it or not.

Negativity? No, legitimate concern from their point of view.

Myself I haven't even formed an opinion about current pricing; I feel I'm missing details about the new features and we don't even know what the upgrade price will be like; but I sure like to read what arguments peoples bring to the table.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:49 am

Fair enough. You're absolutely right in your assessment of the way I worded things, so let me try another way:

Instead of zeroing in on the plug-ins and Quicktime as "optional components" that you'd rather not pay for, let's consider what we ARE getting, and then decide if it's fair.

In the end, it really is up to each of us as individuals.

Thanks for noticing that I was becoming a bit hypocritical and zealous myself.

On the other hand, the very title of the thread is negative... you can't really argue that "not so optimistic" is negative by nature.

...

[edit:]

On a related note, part of the reason I'm getting a bit defensive is because I have a huge capacity for empathy. I sit there and imagine Jules, working his ass off at this thing, trying to please a bunch of people with requests that HE HIMSELF probably didn't want to waste time on. In the end, the new product is f**king full-featured. You can't argue with that. It's got a bit of everything now. Not only that, but the GUI is redesigned, and the whole way of thinking about a sequencer is udpated. What T1 revolutionized, T2 is taking to the next level. There's a new internal rate for mixing... there's all kinds of other features.

And then someone comes along and basically says, "Yuck, I didn't want RMIV". I mean, it doesn't really address it. I'm sure he's thick-skinned enough to live with criticism, but don't you think he'd rather hear comments about Tracktion itself than about any of the extras that are tacked on?

THAT'S what I mean about people missing the boat or missing the point. They're not really looking at Tracktion itself.

Greg

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:05 am

lool maybe he has 2 b laid LOOOL LOOL

BRAJ

i mean RonC

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:09 am

but seriously, it's just who the hell you think youre being sympathetic to. All this feel-good feely feelings crap, mr rodgers, can go both ways. You, lunchbox, can put the "pathetic" in empathetic feelings. You can worry about all Jules feelings, he probably doesnt care, he's doing what he loves and probably makes a LOT of money now. What about OUR feelings? So you can be feeling what other people are feeling or what you assume jules is feeling, or what your neighbor feels... But you'll never really feel it.

Not really.

RoNC

nuisance sonore · Post by **nuisance sonore** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:13 am

Lunch Money wrote:Thanks for noticing that I was becoming a bit hypocritical and zealous myself.

Your words, not mine

And then someone comes along and basically says, "Yuck, I didn't want RMIV". I mean, it doesn't really address it. I'm sure he's thick-skinned enough to live with criticism, but don't you think he'd rather hear comments about Tracktion itself than about any of the extras that are tacked on?

THAT'S what I mean about people missing the boat or missing the point. They're not really looking at Tracktion itself.
Greg

I blame Mackie for that, not Jules and not the users. They released new features on Monday with the mention "more to come", then boom, final feature set with only new plugins added. Then the feature list is very lacking in details, it's very general, opening the door to all kind of speculations.
And yes, Jules is gonna have to grow a thick skin, if he doesn't already have one, as Tracktion is a commercial product and as such, customers will demand their money's worth.

On a side note, aldi did put aside the free plug-ins thing and went on to comment on the actual feature, or lack off, Tracktion himself and I though it was fair.

aldi · Post by **aldi** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:14 am

@greg: it seems, that you've missed MY point.
- I haven't said, it isn't good, that we get plugins for free, i've just said, they ARE free, so i have to look at the price JUST for T2.
- I haven't said the new features are useless to ALL and that they don't worth the price, just that there were more importend things for standing up to the professional contenders that have been discussed here since 1 year. some of them are REALLY small improvements that could have been fastly done.

why did loop audio recording implies track folders ?, THAT would be a great feature. than I'm optimistic

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:14 am

Ron wrote:Not really.

Nope, not really.

That's why it has its own word. "Empathy" is not defined as KNOWING or EXPERIENCING someone else's feelings.

So...

How can I argue with that? I won't ever really know how ANYONE in this world ever feels. I don't think that was up for debate.

Greg

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:16 am

aldi wrote:@greg: it seems, that you've missed MY point.

Quite possible.

But you DID quote the negative features of the plug-ins... those criticisms seemed to be a pretty heavy part of why you're not optimistic. Not all of the plugs are freeware, either, if that's the other thing you were getting at. Amplitube LE alone costs $80-100 and RMIV another $150.

why did loop audio recording implies track folders ?, THAT would be a great feature. than I'm optimistic

Where else are all the takes going to go? Into their own separate tracks each time? There WILL be some form of track management related to loop recording, I just don't know yet what it will be. It makes sense that it would be something like Track folders.

Greg

rpc9943 · Post by **rpc9943** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:19 am

I drove the point further, not saying thats what empathetic means, btw

RONC

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:23 am

Heh, too many people posting and editing at once. I need to quote in order to make it clear who I'm talking to.

Ron, are you still talking? If you are, you're certainly not making sense.

Greg

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:04 am

aldi wrote:hmm.. 199 ?!

this is too much.
t2 will be bundled with lets say "not so good" plugins.
-the working with rm4 is good but it needs way too much cpu power on large kits (double than battery and 10x than dr-008, even 4x of BFD !!!) so it's crap.

-sampletank is well known for crashing.
-amplitube is ok but the free simulanalog guitar suite sounds much much better.
-slayer is a funny band and didn't sound very realistic
-the rest is (or was ) freeware.

and i don't understand, why jules changed his mind on the size of plugins in tracktion.

so let's say, the plugins are just marketing and free gifts:

199 for the new features !?
half of them are bugfixes and things that have to be in a half professional sequencer and that we (the time we bought t1) expected in t1 like : looprecording, sync, auxsends,enhanced midi editor

and then we have some things only mackie need (HDR import, native mackie controler support...)

and things, noone really needs but maby nice to have: 64-BIT, 192KHZ, more colors...

I'm hoping some important things only haven't been mentioned by mackie : fast way for monitor mixing, grouping, folders (without it a 50 track recording isn't much fun), locking wave position, PDC on aux, midiplayback of 40 notes at the same time that uses less cpu performance than playing back 40 audiotracks .....

ok, i love trackion and i'm hoping the best.

btw. why isn't there a volumeslider on the auxsend ICON (like the volume/pan fader) !!!

whan whan whan.............

It's 50 bones more msrp (not bad at all) and they added a ton of shit.

What do you want.........the power of BFD, XFL, BATTERY, SAMPLETANK, SONAR, AND THE KITCHEN sink for 90 bones street price.

After legit concernes, it came out not too bad.........

QUIT GRIPING!!!!!!!!!!

Breakpete · Post by **Breakpete** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:28 am

RMIV was probably chosen over DK+ because DK+ was only just released.

I've demoed both and they are both very good. Each have a strength the other lacks.

GaryG · Post by **GaryG** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:34 am

aldi wrote: 199 for the new features !?
half of them are bugfixes and things that have to be in a half professional sequencer and that we (the time we bought t1) expected in t1 like : looprecording, sync, auxsends,enhanced midi editor

I'm not sure that's fair... T1 was always Jules idea of what a sequencer should be (no mixer etc.), all the enhancements you mention may be 'professional' features but they weren't part of the T1 paradigm (

that word...) I think T1s pricing (pre-mackie) was an example of that, almost an acknowledgement that it wasn't a 'pro' package.

By including them now, T is no longer a 'niche' product but moves up a league and is going to be scrutinised by people who dismissed it out of hand before (for lack of midi sync etc.) It's going to need more support and that costs...

And bare in mind that, here in the UK at least, $199 will get you something like CubaseSE or Cakewalk Homestudio so still in the low-end price bracket.

.g

TheWall · Post by **TheWall** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:05 pm

Ezy Ryder wrote:I blame Mackie for that, not Jules and not the users. They released new features on Monday with the mention "more to come", then boom, final feature set with only new plugins added. Then the feature list is very lacking in details, it's very general, opening the door to all kind of speculations.
And yes, Jules is gonna have to grow a thick skin, if he doesn't already have one, as Tracktion is a commercial product and as such, customers will demand their money's worth.

On a side note, aldi did put aside the free plug-ins thing and went on to comment on the actual feature, or lack off, Tracktion himself and I though it was fair.

You took the word out of my mouth.

So far the feature-fest is rather disappointing to me. But I still have some hope that the beta-demo will blow me away.

BTW, like Ezy Ryder put it, I, too, think it's Mackie's responsibility instead of Jule's. It's odd to see Macke trying to fight all fronts at the same time: the post-production circle/Mackie's customer group/musicians/amateurs/professional sequencers.

It's really weird.