Begging for improved timestretch

[jens]

Let's seee what some long-time users had to say about this topic in the past - I'll start with this one:

Well I'm hoping he's already found a really good time-stretch algo to incorporate in T2. Plus he already has plenty of emails taking up his time, I dont wanna add another . The timestretch algo has been a popular request as long as I've been here. So it better be in T2 or else .

(9th of August 2004)

more to come...

[jens]

The horrible-sounding algorhythm may distort your signal so badly that your ears will tell you the pitch has changed, when in fact the actual PITCH hasn't, but the sound has been mangled beyond recognition.

(8th of august 2004)

[AD80]

[glurgle]

there, that wasn't so hard to figure out now was it? If only you'd kindly take your drama elsewhere... but that would be asking to much I suppose.

somewhere else?

hmmm...like, perhaps, a forum relating Tra...oh

well, sorry for bothering 'you' with 'my' 'little' 'drama'.

the point of Tracktion is making the job in hand easier. my point is, why only make it a bit easier and stop there? i understand all the 'not every new feature can happen at once' comments. surely you can understand the point of view that we've been waiting for improvements to an existing feature (which is, for many, not just me, a creative essential) for a VERY long time, whilst having been left to speculate about it, with no word from Jules or Mackie to inform us one way on another.

'so go and use another app then'. right. that's so helpful toooooo.

ffs

oh wait, you're totally right!

here, how about I just wave my magic wand and put it in tracktion 2 for you now? better?



My point (and only point thus far) is that you've stated your wants and opinions, other people have stated theirs. It doesn't do much good for you to keep trying to convince us that your desire is critically important and we simply aren't taking your want seriously enough. You're acting like the kid that 'needs' that toy right now! The problem is you're whining to a bunch of passersby who couldn't care less, as the mother in this analogy has got better things to do with her (his) time than validate your tantrum.

So anyways, since I'm not being paid to babysit, I'll carry on with my business and make some music.

[haydxn]

jens you're eXT's biggest fanboy! i'm not sure i can take your tracktion fanboy comments seriously!

[haydxn]

double posties!

[jens]

yes, these algorithms are easily amongst the worst sounding ones I ever tried

Actually, this is the reason which led me to my initial question - I could hardly hear any difference at all.

- what difference are you looking for?
- Tracktion keeps the original pitch while time-stretching just as it should, but it introdudes a shitload of artifacts, especially when speeding up the sample (annoying crackles)

edit: that is when you chose 'quick' - the other
two introduce heavy phasing and kill the transients

Yeah I only use the time stretch as a distortion plug-in. Very unique.

(15th of may 2004)

[jens]

yeah - you really wrote that...

[jens]

jens you're eXT's biggest fanboy! i'm not sure i can take your tracktion fanboy comments seriously!

[AD80]

yeah - you really wrote that...

And I meant it too. I'm more impressed with your research skills haha. You should be a lawyer or somethin. Definitely better than my D.A. .

[jens]

I'm off now, but expect more later on...

[clueless]

oh wait, you're totally right!

here, how about I just wave my magic wand and put it in tracktion 2 for you now? better?

really? just for me?!

My point (and only point thus far) is that you've stated your wants and opinions, other people have stated theirs. It doesn't do much good for you to keep trying to convince us that your desire is critically important and we simply aren't taking your want seriously enough.

to convince you? I'm not even remotely interest in your opinion, or how seriously you take my personal solitary 'want'

it doesn't do much good to convince me that it isn't important, either

You're acting like the kid that 'needs' that toy right now!

I'm acting like someone who bought Tracktion 2 years ago because it's the most intuitive app on the market, and, at the time, had a dev who was incredibly active on the forum, and unsurpassed in his response to client feedback. 'My' request - because it's just me, right? that's why you're singling me out for (ironic) appraisal of my maturity - dates from that time. I JOINED KvR BECAUSE of Tracktion! This being the home of its official forum, being the place where users discuss it!

The problem is you're whining

oh, it's just me is it?

...to a bunch of passersby

passersby? you mean registered KvRers and Tracktion users on a Tracktion forum? you mean the person who started this thread? seems to have quite a few hits for something nobody cares about

who couldn't care less

so why be here?

as the mother in this analogy has got better things to do with her (his) time than validate your tantrum.

and I'm not asking you to validate my tantrum

since I'm not being paid to babysit

thanks 'mum' - hope i grow up to be as mature as you

my point was 'wouldn't it have been nice if we'd been talked to'.

pardon me

[BenK]

i think the old jules(before mackie) could have written us a new timestretch in a matter of days.

that is all

Well, I hope the lack of an emoticon doesn't imply that you seriously mean that?

"The old Jules" was not really sustainable forever, you can only double features a week for a limited time. Hell, judging from his posts to this forum and the number of new releases he could obviously work longer without a break than I can just stay awake.

I actually had a slight hope that it could become a bit like that again after T2 is out the door. But somehow I have my doubts if he really feels like browsing through all this garbage just to find the three posts worth answering.

What would help keeping the forum a bit saner in my opinion would be two sticky threads, one poll for feature requests (just suggest and/or vote, strictly keeping the "I think mine is more important than yours" discussions out) and one thread for reporting bugs. Maybe that would save us some of the regular ego driven monster threads.

cheers
BenK

[glurgle]

well I suppose using an analogy was a bad idea, leaving things open to interpretation and all. Then again, Your talent for taking quotes out of context means it doesn't really matter if I state things plainly. But for the hell of it, I'll repeat myself:

I wasn't singling out your want, it's perfectly valid and shared by many here (as this thread has shown). The only thing that caused me to post in the first place is the way you went apeshit and singlehandedly turned this into a timestretching jihad.


Let's do some quotes shall we?

I wish they'd just put us out of our misery!!!

Sorry, you were all were waiting for me to reply? My bad. There have been no changes to Pitch Shift/Time Stretch for version 2.0. Sorry, we couldn't do everything for this release and there were many things, including new PS and TS algorithms, that didn't make it.
Ben

ahhhhhhhhh SHITE!



future plans Beno?

been waiting nearly 2 friggin years!

Now that's a perfectly acceptable response, you're dissappointed, it sucks, but so it goes. So the chatter continues for another page or two then ModulR inadvertantly sets you off:

What's the point in pushing a product that doesn't even support the hardware you sell? Seems pretty obvious to me..

cos we all have Mackie HDR's...right?

all this "it's no big deal, just stretch in another app. blah blah..."

bollocks! it's a f**king big deal!

"what happens to the audio clips in this 32 track project if I want to change the tempo? oops..."

for f**k's sake! it's been the most conspicuously requested feature apart from 'improved MIDI' virtually from day 1! I don;t want to use Live! I don't even understand what the f**k you're supposed to do with it! I mean..."huh?!" What are the 2 screens for? I'm sure there's a really great reason, but after 15 minutes I really couldn't be arsed finding out, pretty though they both are.

I won't be upgrading until a high-quality timestretch/pitch-shift is integrated. I think Tracktion is "the best thing since sliced bread", but for what I do - other than tracking stuff in - I really can't use it that much, and I'm very disappointed.

wtf? ok, so you're really pissed, and really really really wanted improved timestretch. Sorry, but them's the breaks.

Now I'll skip over platinumears bit of trolling, and do a little 'clueless style' rapid-fire quoting!

no, we don;t have to buy it, but we did, some of us bought it a long long time ago

You say that like it entitles you to something more than what you paid for. (which was a license to use a piece of software by the way)

why can't we dictate what goes into it? who is it for? besides which, we were asked!!!

Because it's not yours. Asking for somebodys suggestions/opinions is not the same as agreeing to follow them.

re-recording it at the right speed will NOT 'always' sound better. it is not always possible. performances, performers, recording environments, happy accidents, can not always be duplicated at will.

apart from that, you seem to be viewing the facility as a shortcut for dummies. maybe it's actually an incredibly useful creative tool. mention has been made of tracktion's use for soundtrack work. "This section of music would work brilliantly with this scene, if only one wasn't 10 seconds longer than the other...."

Yes you're absolutely right, and nobody was seriously contesting those points. Go you!

here's a good example of 'clueless' quoting:

I don't think anyone here is debating the value of a good timestretch or beat slicing.

are you kidding?!

I'm sure Mackie wants a good timestretch too...

great. so where is it?

It's just annoying, when you here people complaining that it's not part of T2.

it's pretty annoying from this end too

If you have a bit of patience, it'll probably be addressed in an update.

great

when?

if they integrated a timestretch but it took another 6 months to nail an really good algo, many would be bitching endlessly... that's why this is all annoying as shit.

LICENSE ONE FOR f**k'S SAKE! and not as many people would be bitching endlessly if they knew they only had a 6 month wait.

it's being f**king SELFISH! because as your dire need is addressed, it's snuffs someone elses dire need..

sorry, I didn't realise

unless you are willing to wait longer which many of you have clearly exhibited the LACK of patience for.... how about STFU!

lack of patience? 2 years??!!

I was particularly chafed by the way you badgered ModulR, one of the most helpful and dedicated T users and forum members, with questions he couldn't possibly answer. But don't get all pissy, I wouldn't dare question your maturity!

the point is, Mod, Mackie may have a stake in T2, but we are its consumers.

No you're not, you've stated numerous times you won't be upgrading. You seem to think that buying a Tracktion license entitles you to have a say in it's development. This isn't true, it never has been. Jules is smart enough to know that his customers are the best focus group, but at the end of the day, he makes the decision for his baby. (btw, is the previous analogy coming any clearer yet?)

i just think we've been misled about something...

bollocks.

Now, please do go ahead and have the last word. Justify yourself if you feel so inclined. Go through and quote me to show what an abrasive asshole I was to you. After all, we couldn't care less about each others opinions, and your entitled to yours.

[Lunch Money]

Jens, I don't see your point with the re-quoting of my words. I don't know if you were trying to catch me with my pants down or something, but you failed...

I've always said that the current timestretch is unusable as a timestretch (though in that same thread, my other point was, "but it makes for some interesting effects" if I remember correctly). What's that to do with one thing or another? In this thread, I've never once said, "The current timestretch is fine," and in fact I've said the opposite: "I'd love to have a better timestretch."

That doesn't change my thoughts about people being so reactionary, or change that I'll be in line to buy T2 -now- rather than wait for a seldom-used feature that may or may not come along within the next half a year.

<shrug>

Really, not sure what you thought you were proving.

Furthermore, regarding AD80 or valley's quotes-- is it not just possible that someone's opinion can change (as well as their needs) over time?

For example-- what if I said one day, "Holy crap, I use loops so much that I can't live another day without proper beatslice." And then ModuLR wrote me a PM the next day showing me how to accomplish what I want to accomplish (albeit manually) right in the timeline of Tracktion itself? Maybe the next day I'd write a post, "Hey, guess what-- now that I have new information, I guess I don't need beatslice so badly."

Or, maybe I will have changed my music-writing strategy to lean more heavily on programming my own beats? Same reaction-- "Nah, I don't really need or want beatslicing anymore."

Back to the original point, though: my old quote saying, "T1's timestretch is a nightmare" is still something I'd stand by. No lack of consistency there.