I knowModuLR wrote: btw jens and clueless... this is nothing personal
I hope you know that it's the same from my part
Begging for improved timestretch
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
I hope you know that it's the same from my part
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
the length of time which has passed still doesn't imply anything.. no matter how much you want it to. In that 15 months alot of other stuff occured. As I said, the only thing you can nail Jules to is the Midi editor. He said openly that he had begun working on it. Beyond that... it's just wishful thinking.jens wrote:bloody hell, that was 15 months ago...
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
ModuLR wrote:you are still assuming it's in their interest to license a timestretch, as opposed to coding their own. Do you think if Live licensed that timestretch.. it would be nearly as robust as it is now? especially relying on third party libraries?
jules wrote:It's bloody difficult to write a good time-stretcher! I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I've done my best!
If anyone wants to send me a perfect-quality, low-cpu time-stretching algorithm, I'll happily put it in there!
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
so here it is:
jens wrote:b.t.w.: if Jules or Mackie would have really digged into it for more than two minutes they would have found the soundtouch library - it's free (it's published under the LGPL so it's possible to include it in a commercial application) and it has a good quality
- it wouldn't cost a dime, is easy to implement (coded in C++) and would solve the problem
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- KVRian
- 679 posts since 6 Aug, 2004 from Cyberspace
Oh well. I had really hoped we'd see some slicing/ time stretching tools in T2 but hey....I cant code so I get what Im given 
This could be an opertunity to turn this around though. There are some really cool slicers around like Micro Dicer and LeapFrogs slicer. The rest of the plugins need "to be confirmed" so why not ask Jules/Mackie to include one.
Its already been confirmed T2 wont have some features we want so lets not fight about it. We are posting on (proably) the best place to find an alternative.
Personally Im using Ext in Trackton so I can slice all day but there are alternatives.
OT: What is it about genius developers and "J" in their first names?
This could be an opertunity to turn this around though. There are some really cool slicers around like Micro Dicer and LeapFrogs slicer. The rest of the plugins need "to be confirmed" so why not ask Jules/Mackie to include one.
Its already been confirmed T2 wont have some features we want so lets not fight about it. We are posting on (proably) the best place to find an alternative.
Personally Im using Ext in Trackton so I can slice all day but there are alternatives.
OT: What is it about genius developers and "J" in their first names?
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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- KVRian
- 679 posts since 6 Aug, 2004 from Cyberspace
Oh well. I had really hoped we'd see some slicing/ time stretching tools in T2 but hey....I cant code so I get what Im given
This could be an opertunity to turn this around though. There are some really cool slicers around like Micro Dicer and LeapFrogs slicer. The rest of the plugins need "to be confirmed" so why not ask Jules/Mackie to include one.
Its already been confirmed T2 wont have some features we want so lets not fight about it. We are posting on (proably) the best place to find an alternative.
Personally Im using Ext in Trackton so I can slice all day but there are alternatives.
OT: What is it about genius developers and "J" in their first names?
This could be an opertunity to turn this around though. There are some really cool slicers around like Micro Dicer and LeapFrogs slicer. The rest of the plugins need "to be confirmed" so why not ask Jules/Mackie to include one.
Its already been confirmed T2 wont have some features we want so lets not fight about it. We are posting on (proably) the best place to find an alternative.
Personally Im using Ext in Trackton so I can slice all day but there are alternatives.
OT: What is it about genius developers and "J" in their first names?
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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- KVRist
- 317 posts since 13 Oct, 2001 from Mars
wot?! that's not there either?!ModuLR wrote:(B) people are waiting for other features which are very close in priority (automation clips was used as an example... to which you even agreed jens) and guess what? those aren't here yet either... but we don't endlessly bitch at about it. At a ceertain point, you acknowledge that your point has been made and move on.
I trust Jule's ability wholeheartedly. So, his time must have been put into a good use in a certain direction of development - which isn't clear yet from the currently revealed feature set, TBH...
So either Mackie left out lots of things in the feature list(which I inclined to think of as the case), or maybe we'll see another product from RMS soon? I know, I know, just pure speculation...
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
If he spent all his time on the new MIDI editor, and everything else was the same as T1, I would still be happy to upgrade.TheWall wrote:I trust Jule's ability wholeheartedly. So, his time must have been put into a good use in a certain direction of development - which isn't clear yet from the currently revealed feature set, TBH...
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Whoa, spend a day sick in bad and look what I missed 
Regarding the lack of timestretch:
1) It's a real surprise and a disappointment.
2) However, there are some major new features in T2 which more than justify the upgrade.
3) Of course Mackie/Jules couldn't implement everything in one upgrade... BUT I think they majorly misjudged the importance that many Tracktion users placed on this being improved.
4) Hopefully in the light of this, and bearing in mind Jules and Beno both read these threads, an improved timestretch algo will now jump straight to the top of the list for the next update.
5) Until then don't let disappointment get in the way of you enjoying your favourite and most productive sequencer/host .
6) Regarding attracting new users though, this coulod be an issue. Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Acid, Live 4, Samplitude, FL studio, Audition, and many others have very good (relative) time-stretch now, so Tracktion is trailing behind on this one. It may be enough to put of some people, depending on their needs/musical genre.
7) I think that the "pro" users Mackie are trying to attract with some of T2s other features will try the timestretch and be amazed that Mackie let something that bad out of the factory. I'm wondering if the dudes at Mackie have actually tried the existing timestretch and realise just how bad it is.
8 ) Personally I would have prefered NO time-stretch than for the T1 tinestretch to have been left in unchanged, because I think it is a discredit to an otherwise excellent piece of software.
Regarding the lack of timestretch:
1) It's a real surprise and a disappointment.
2) However, there are some major new features in T2 which more than justify the upgrade.
3) Of course Mackie/Jules couldn't implement everything in one upgrade... BUT I think they majorly misjudged the importance that many Tracktion users placed on this being improved.
4) Hopefully in the light of this, and bearing in mind Jules and Beno both read these threads, an improved timestretch algo will now jump straight to the top of the list for the next update.
5) Until then don't let disappointment get in the way of you enjoying your favourite and most productive sequencer/host
.6) Regarding attracting new users though, this coulod be an issue. Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Acid, Live 4, Samplitude, FL studio, Audition, and many others have very good (relative) time-stretch now, so Tracktion is trailing behind on this one. It may be enough to put of some people, depending on their needs/musical genre.
7) I think that the "pro" users Mackie are trying to attract with some of T2s other features will try the timestretch and be amazed that Mackie let something that bad out of the factory. I'm wondering if the dudes at Mackie have actually tried the existing timestretch and realise just how bad it is.
8 ) Personally I would have prefered NO time-stretch than for the T1 tinestretch to have been left in unchanged, because I think it is a discredit to an otherwise excellent piece of software.
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- KVRian
- 1112 posts since 17 Jul, 2003 from Kauai, HI
Has anyone pointed out that most other hosts are version 4, 5, 6 or 7? Tracktion is moving fast considering it's at 2. mmmmm-Tracktion 5!
Tom
Tom
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Yes, indeed - it was ModuLRSaviorNeeded wrote:Has anyone pointed out that most other hosts are version 4, 5, 6 or 7?
(still a bad argument though imo
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Why is this a bad argument? It's been said and understood so many times. T is the work STILL of one developer and maybe a tester or two. It IS still in the early stages. Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Audition(Cool Edit), Acid, FL, and even eXT have been around longer. And all of these except for one or two have had teams of developers. And they STILL didn't get all the features that everyone wanted. So why is T so wrong for not having every feature. The timestretch is ONE feature. Whether or not it's widely asked for or not, Jules and Mackie had to make priorities. They have a market they want to hit, and current users to make happy, all at the same time. I'm sure they're not in the office saying "Screw these users, we'll do it our way."
Oh, and who knows if automation clips are there or not, until the final list comes out. There's alot we don't know so far. But at least we know that automation moves with the tracks or expands with the tracks(one or the other, or both, I don't remember).
Really, if this feature is SO important that you NEED it to work, then why did you buy T1? You should have known from the demo that it wasn't great at timestretching. And if you needed it so bad to make music, then how did you get by with T1? Did you make NO music with it? In fact, you didn't really NEED it. You got by without it. So many people claim to not be able to make music without a better timestretch. Give me a break. And NEVER was there made ANY promise that there WOULD be one in T2. It was looked into, and that's all. Plus, maybe they want to get it right and focus it into a release later on.
Anyway, peace. I need to get something to eat. I feel like chicken and potatos.
Koolkeys
Oh, and who knows if automation clips are there or not, until the final list comes out. There's alot we don't know so far. But at least we know that automation moves with the tracks or expands with the tracks(one or the other, or both, I don't remember).
Really, if this feature is SO important that you NEED it to work, then why did you buy T1? You should have known from the demo that it wasn't great at timestretching. And if you needed it so bad to make music, then how did you get by with T1? Did you make NO music with it? In fact, you didn't really NEED it. You got by without it. So many people claim to not be able to make music without a better timestretch. Give me a break. And NEVER was there made ANY promise that there WOULD be one in T2. It was looked into, and that's all. Plus, maybe they want to get it right and focus it into a release later on.
Anyway, peace. I need to get something to eat. I feel like chicken and potatos.
Koolkeys