articulating, crisp 1/16 bass

[Igor 4000]

The difference between your sound and the psytrance sounds, is the filter envelope amount.

Can you expand on that a bit more? I've never really figured out how to use filter envelopes effectively.

[Ackelito]

well, everybody thinks that this thread is about a "problem" .. I have not said that there is a problem. All I wanted was to people who KNOW how to make a crisp 1/16 bass to recommend some good synths I could try

BUT .. I still don't sound as good as gms and that IS the problem. but I haven't mentioned about a problem earlier, have I?

Too me it sounds like a problem if something is "too muddy" but thats just from my view point.

Crisp, as in sharp, distinct, solid and concise?

So everybody that recommends a synth for you needs to know how to do a crisp 1/16 bass? one could think that the lead question would be how they do it

well, I /would/ consider it my area of expertise .. and people tend to like my basses, but nobody's called me a star yet .. but anyway, you get the point ,)

So if people like your basses, make some wicked music m8! you will get better in due time to make those basses that you want, no synth will hurry that up... again just my point of view..

yeah, me neither. It wasn't actually supposed to sound "juast like a gms bass" but something between gms and hujaboy maybe. actually I don't care about what my basses resemle as long as they're good. .. but I didn't like it that much either, and that's why I'm asking for you to recommend new synths. take a listen to my other songs at al101.netikka.fi

Will take a listen..
a good bass is a good bass, at least to some peoples ears, some people will like it and some will not, thats how taste is...
and bass is a tricky thing, amongst other things..

for a while ago you wanted to sound like gms and that was a problem so what about the resemble part?... you seem vacillating at points

but i think i understand some of what you say.
For me you just got to be a little more precise, dont mix irony with serious stuff.. for my part irony is hard to understand in text.
most of the things you talk about is how good you are and that things(synths) just dont cut it for you.. leave that out if you just want advice on synths, i dont want to know that, be prepared that people will make jokes and tell you basic stuff when you are not precise enough,
So do you want the formula on how to make a gms bass or do you want some new baselines dedicated synths that is good for sharp distinct bass sounds.. i already told you about a synth i thought you should try and so did 4 people after me... this thread is heading the way you wrote and answerd things... 60-70% is missunderstandings, and when you spin forward on those missunderstandings it will get whacko.. (using % without proper evaluation and calculation, be aware)

and actually, I don't think that I've tried a synth yet that some of the dudes I admire use to get a sound that I like .. that's why I'm looking.

hmm dont know if i understand this, but you have tried synths that some of the dudes you admire use? but you havent got any good sounds out of them?


yeah, there's been an awful lot of tweaking done, and now it's time for the final piece of the bassline puzzle: the right synth! (follow me?)

The right synth? yeah but in my opinion there are lots of synths that cut it for me.. its all about how i tweak them and which FX combinations i use on them
i have stoped looking for synths that will make the right sound for me, cause there isnt many that will sound right without some tweaking and heavy thinking... especially when it comes to baselines.

but of course there are synths i want, that i believe will make good basses for me, but i dont have access to them.

If i cant make a synth sing for me the way i want it to then it´s just a matter of knowledge.(firstly i need to know if the synth is the right one for my causes), I cant control something fully if i dont understand how it works and understand what i need to tweak to make it sound the way i want it to.
I mean i could tweak for days without coming closer to what i want, if i dont know where to tweak... cause i need to concentrate on the parameters thats important for the cause and i need to fine tune them, im talking about minimal adjustments...

cause tweaking in my opinion is not when you twist every knob you see and hope that it will sound like you want it to sound, tweaking in my view is when you make narrow movements and listen carefully to the sound you are after.

im not saying that you dont know what you tweak, im just saying that you got to know what you want to tweak, what you want to achieve.. you seem to know what you want to achieve but you cant do it, then what is the question about?

[Omniphonix]

Ya know, most psy trance basslines evolved from 303 acid lines. Why try to overcomplicate this? I think Audio Realism's BassLine is just what you need. Hell, I even get good results from rewiring the FL Studio TS404 into Cubase and applying VST effects there (of course, you can do this with just FL). Maybe you should try a bass enhancer plug like Waves MaxxBass/Renaissance Bass or PSP MixBass. I also like using Antares Tube on basslines, it will really fatten them up. Then again, I use it mainly for breakbeat basslines, so it may not work for psy.

[slasi]

This thread on psy-forum.co.uk talks about synths for basslines. Some folks over there like Pentagon. You might have to register to read the thread.

[moonlite]

you might try Hydra -- it can do a sort of hybrid fm bass very well

much like Tera, but Tera can do a lot more

i think the secret of articultaion in a bass is its upper registers, the lower isn't heard as much as felt, so fm-like basses might work well for this by having those upper Hz arcticulated attacks

between the upper and low, you may want to scoop it out with eq to avoid muddiness


that concept of placement is killer

and this might help
bass clarity
http://www.alexandermagazine.com/record ... 4/bass.htm

yeah, you're very right .. you're one of the first people that seem to know what they're talking about (plus have some logic in your arguments ;))

thanks, i WILL try hydra asap =)

saw for the modulator and sine for the carrier?

[moonlite]

<removed>

damn kvr dosn't submit and then submits twice. then if you remove one it removes both. that's why I haven't been removing these ..

[moonlite]

well, everybody thinks that this thread is about a "problem" .. I have not said that there is a problem. All I wanted was to people who KNOW how to make a crisp 1/16 bass to recommend some good synths I could try ;)

BUT .. I still don't sound as good as gms and that IS the problem. but I haven't mentioned about a problem earlier, have I? ;)

Too me it sounds like a problem if something is "too muddy" but thats just from my view point.

yeah but I was talking about the synths.

Crisp, as in sharp, distinct, solid and concise?

So everybody that recommends a synth for you needs to know how to do a crisp 1/16 bass?

well, wouldn't this be ideal? I've seen enough answers from people who either don't have a clue or don't care. for the most part I think both.

one could think that the lead question would be how they do it :lol:

yeah, but I'm happy with just the name of the synth. I can figure the rest out by myself.

well, I /would/ consider it my area of expertise .. and people tend to like my basses, but nobody's called me a star yet ;) .. but anyway, you get the point ,)

So if people like your basses, make some wicked music m8!

yeah, and that's what I'm doing, but is there anything wrong with wanting equipment that would make it easier?

you will get better in due time to make those basses that you want, no synth will hurry that up... again just my point of view..

everybody seems to think (or at least speak in the way) that you can make any bass sound with any synth. come on. you must know that that's not true!

do you really think that I think I'm gonna find a synth that does it all for me with no work?

what's wrong with trying to find something that sounds better than the stuff I use now?

c'mon if people waste their time and money with high end hi-fi equipment, putting thousands of dollars to wires they /think/ sound better, I can NOT see the harm in trying to find a synth that I /know/ will sound a little better than the one I use now??

if for nothing else, then for just making me feel good about "using the synth that I think sounds best for the things I do" even if I could do it with something else.

does this sound so crazy to you??

yeah, me neither. It wasn't actually supposed to sound "juast like a gms bass" but something between gms and hujaboy maybe. actually I don't care about what my basses resemle as long as they're good. .. but I didn't like it that much either, and that's why I'm asking for you to recommend new synths. take a listen to my other songs at al101.netikka.fi

Will take a listen..
a good bass is a good bass, at least to some peoples ears, some people will like it and some will not, thats how taste is...
and bass is a tricky thing, amongst other things..

for a while ago you wanted to sound like gms and that was a problem :hihi: so what about the resemble part?... you seem vacillating at points :wink:

did I say that I wanted to sound /like/ them? sorry, I ment that I want to sound /as good/ and /clean/ etc ..

why would I then talk about artists that sound as different as gms and skazi and psysex etc? of course I can not have all their bass-sounds in one song! :D this doesn't make sense! =)

of course you must know what I mean? are you just pulling my leg you bastard? ;)

but i think i understand some of what you say.
For me you just got to be a little more precise, dont mix irony with serious stuff.. for my part irony is hard to understand in text.
most of the things you talk about is how good you are and that things(synths) just dont cut it for you.. leave that out if you just want advice on synths, i dont want to know that, be prepared that people will make jokes and tell you basic stuff when you are not precise enough,
So do you want the formula on how to make a gms bass or do you want some new baselines dedicated synths that is good for sharp distinct bass sounds.. i already told you about a synth i thought you should try and so did 4 people after me... this thread is heading the way you wrote and answerd things... 60-70% is missunderstandings, and when you spin forward on those missunderstandings it will get whacko.. (using % without proper evaluation and calculation, be aware) ;)

yeah, I'm new to web boards .. this is the first one for me.

I just hoped that I could make a simple question without explaining everything I've tried and what I know etc etc so that people wouldn't suggest things I already know

and if you read the original post again, you can see that it's pretty clear that I'm asking for a suggestion for a synth. nothing else.

this is one of my first "own threads" and i've learnt a lot .. my biggest mistake was getting worked up on smartmouths that that didn't really care nore know anything and wanted just to be dicks. from now on I think the best thing to do is just try to ignore them

and actually, I don't think that I've tried a synth yet that some of the dudes I admire use to get a sound that I like .. that's why I'm looking.

hmm dont know if i understand this, but you have tried synths that some of the dudes you admire use? but you havent got any good sounds out of them?

:D .. I ment that I /think/ that I haven't yet stumbled upon an instrument that hujaboy or gms etc uses :D (except for vb-1)

yeah, there's been an awful lot of tweaking done, and now it's time for the final piece of the bassline puzzle: the right synth! (follow me?)

The right synth? yeah but in my opinion there are lots of synths that cut it for me.. its all about how i tweak them and which FX combinations i use on them

well then I'm just more of an perfectionist ;) ..

i have stoped looking for synths that will make the right sound for me, cause there isnt many that will sound right without some tweaking and heavy thinking... especially when it comes to baselines.

of course I think and tweak a lot .. and you konw it!

but of course there are synths i want, that i believe will make good basses for me, but i dont have access to them.

If i cant make a synth sing for me the way i want it to then it´s just a matter of knowledge.(firstly i need to know if the synth is the right one for my causes), I cant control something fully if i dont understand how it works and understand what i need to tweak to make it sound the way i want it to.
I mean i could tweak for days without coming closer to what i want, if i dont know where to tweak... cause i need to concentrate on the parameters thats important for the cause and i need to fine tune them, im talking about minimal adjustments...

cause tweaking in my opinion is not when you twist every knob you see and hope that it will sound like you want it to sound, tweaking in my view is when you make narrow movements and listen carefully to the sound you are after.

im not saying that you dont know what you tweak, im just saying that you got to know what you want to tweak, what you want to achieve.. you seem to know what you want to achieve but you cant do it, then what is the question about?

well of course I come at least nowdays pretty close to what I want. it's not a question of not being able to do it at all. It's a question of doing it better!
and everything can always be done better!

that's what I want to do.

ultimately, my goal is to outdo gms and hujaboy etc asap (I'm not kidding). I want to be BEST and I'm trying to find the equipment that can take me there.

please don't start again with "yeah well it's not the eqiupment that makes the music you have to this and that and blah blah" cause I know that stuff already!

I just want the right equipment now and continue practicing with that. OKAY?

hey, mr. teacher, may I? may I?

thanks

=)

[Bake]

Knock it off with the f**king double posts!!!




J/K.

[xoxos]

i've been avoiding this on principle but was drawn magnetically to thread this evening, so..

i think a lot of people aren't really interested in just naming synths for bass because the synth is less important than the technique.

perhaps one interpretation of the term 'crisp' is 'exact,' and i am wondering - do you know what it means to sync an oscillator to the gate?

eg. classic yamaha fm synths sync the oscillators to the gate.. key on, all oscillators start from the same phase each time so the same sound is produced with each key press.

many subtractive vsti use the principle of 'continuous oscillators,' where the oscs change pitch and are amplified by the gate envelope, but do not resync to the gate. the result of this on patches with quick envelopes is that you will hear a variability as the waveform is amplified at various points in its phase.. if you have an instantaneous envelope, it would sound like popping.. at slower rates, its more a subtle difference in tone.

stuff like this is why the synth i use is generally the one i most recently wired together in a modular software.

hth

[DMuzik]

on www.isratrance.com are very good tutorials for basslines&kicks,espesially one tutorial with an in depth tutor.In fact, taupro is good for short settings 1/32 instead of 1/16 with albino and even the dx 10 and sytrus in fruity loops works good

I can´t find those tutorials. Could you please point me to exactly where they are?

[BONES]

From the list you provided I would say the problem lies with your programming. Use an envelope to open and clost the filter - keep the sustain to zero and the decay quite short. Do something similar for the VCA envelope and you should be able to get a decent bass sound from plenty of synths. The trick is to match your envelope decay time to the tempo of your track.

[artie2050]

I can´t find those tutorials. Could you please point me to exactly where they are?[/quote]
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.p ... 66/forum/2
This is the most relative at this moment

[DMuzik]

Thanks!

[moonlite]

oh god I get more offended by this thread every time I check upon it

YES I know what syncing and phasing the oscillator is and I use it

YES I know what envelopes are GOD!! c'mon!!

don't you people read this thread at all before answering???

please please please, try to understand that I'm developing my mixing skills all the time and just asking for a good synth to work with

I'm cool with that you guys get the results what you want from those synths, but don't you understand that we have different needs??

I've been studying different techniques for bass and drums for 10 years and now just need a good tool to work with! and I've made this quite clear during this thread!

you speak as if I weren't trying at all, but f.ex. ATM I've got bazzoid, hydra, pentagon, mercury, tera 2 and sytrus loaded and am ATM trying them out.

AND GUESS WHAT? THEY /DO/ SOUND DIFFERENT!! (and just for the record, I'll say again: I DO NOT USE PRESETS)

and /these/ kind of differences are what I'd like to discuss here.

.. uhh ..



I know I shoudn't, but I just keep getting so angry reading this thread. .. I'm thinking, is there a way for the original poster (me) to lock this thread? this is just sooo not worth it =(

(I'm sorry. I have been rude to some of you. this is just so frustrating)

[xoxos]

AND GUESS WHAT? THEY /DO/ SOUND DIFFERENT!!

well huh

beats me

mebbe it ever occured to you that DIFFERENT is good enuff for some people, and that GOOD is kinda an offensive concept in light of DIFFERENT???

ffs

you're asking a list 1/2 composed of DEVELOPERS

what you want us to say? "yeah, my shit s good, they're all naff"

or do you want the honest answer?

"find your own good"

this schism in public attitudes (articulate vs. consumer) is why these threads always go on and on and on