Hey everybody. I've been using Ozone for mastering for quite a while but I'm keen to try something else and figured I'd give Final Mix a go. It sounds pretty strong and seems to influence the sound quite a bit, especially the Final Mix preset. Which is a good preset to try and out of curiosity, what chain of FX are you inserting on the Master channel before Final Mix or after to get that final sound?
I'm thinking about inserting an EQ to filter out all the sub bass (any suggestions for an easy to use EQ plug?) then Voxengo Warmifier to add a bit of simulated tube warmth and then Final Mix...
I'm looking for a fairly dynamic sound, not too squashed ala the Loud and Punchy preset on Endorphin for example. Something a tad more subtle.
Any thoughts?
Final Mix settings
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- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
What's wrong with the EQ built into Final Mix?audiobot202 wrote:(any suggestions for an easy to use EQ plug?)
There is no "perfect" mastering chain, as every track needs treating differently: if you get your mix spot on you may not need any mastering proccessing.
That said, I usually use Final Mix for a bit of multi-band compression, and I often use the Tls Maximiser for limiting the end of the chain. If I need more sophisticated EQ than FM provides, I usually turn to my own Dynamic EQ.
I don't use presets, so I can't recommend any, and anyway, I would need to hear the material in question! One trick I like for maintaining punch however, is to set up a compressor transfer curve that affects the middle of the dynamic range more than the top. (ie: graph goes up at 45 deg for a bit, then levels off in the middle, then back to 45 deg for the last few db) This can be really useful on the bass band especially, as you can beef up the low frequencies without destroying the kick drum transients.
If I can't get it right with those tools, or if I find myself applying more than about a db of static EQ, I go back to the mix and try again..
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- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
thanx 4 the link to that nice looking EQ ill have fun testing that later today (hopfuly with T2) 
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
All good points...but I'm not a mastering engineer so I have no use for complicated interfaces or less than intuitive EQ plugins.
I've done plenty of mastering using Ozone and T racks, and wanted to try something different, so I turned to Final Mix for the first time.
I know that plenty of other users get into the Voxengo chain of plugins and recommend them, but like I said, I'm not an engineer or audio scientist so I really just need a basic overview.
Where do I use the Limiter, where do I use the compression usually...how does the chain work....in general, not for any one particular track.
I've done plenty of mastering using Ozone and T racks, and wanted to try something different, so I turned to Final Mix for the first time.
I know that plenty of other users get into the Voxengo chain of plugins and recommend them, but like I said, I'm not an engineer or audio scientist so I really just need a basic overview.
Where do I use the Limiter, where do I use the compression usually...how does the chain work....in general, not for any one particular track.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
A good starting point might be:
Multi-band compression -> EQ -> Limiter -> Dither
But swapping the order of the EQ and compression might be sensible, depending what you are trying to achieve (FM gives you pre and post EQ, so both these are possibilities without needing a seperate EQ plug)
I'm not familiar with Warmifier, but assuming its a "Vintage Warmer" type plug, you may want to consider using it instead of the limiter, as its basically just a limiter with character.
The only plug I consider essential for mastering these days (apart from dither of course) is Inspector, not so much for the RTA as for the level meters: Viewing peak levels on the same scale as RMS is a great way to judge whether you have over-compressed or not.. (if your RMS levels go over about -9 dBFS when your peak levels hit 0 dBFS, then you've probably overdone it: "audiophile" recordings will usually have a peak to RMS ratio of around double that!)
Multi-band compression -> EQ -> Limiter -> Dither
But swapping the order of the EQ and compression might be sensible, depending what you are trying to achieve (FM gives you pre and post EQ, so both these are possibilities without needing a seperate EQ plug)
I'm not familiar with Warmifier, but assuming its a "Vintage Warmer" type plug, you may want to consider using it instead of the limiter, as its basically just a limiter with character.
The only plug I consider essential for mastering these days (apart from dither of course) is Inspector, not so much for the RTA as for the level meters: Viewing peak levels on the same scale as RMS is a great way to judge whether you have over-compressed or not.. (if your RMS levels go over about -9 dBFS when your peak levels hit 0 dBFS, then you've probably overdone it: "audiophile" recordings will usually have a peak to RMS ratio of around double that!)
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
To know where/how to apply you first have to know what it does! Maybe that is the question you want the answer to? Well, do you?audiobot202 wrote:like I said, I'm not an engineer or audio scientist so I really just need a basic overview.
Where do I use the Limiter, where do I use the compression usually...how does the chain work....in general, not for any one particular track.
Once you have that knowledge you've taken the first step of becoming an engineer
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
I don't want to be an engineer. I simply want to make decent sonding music with the simplest setup available. This is why I mentioned presets. I don't have a very good technical mind for a lot o the jargon involved with techniques like compression. I understand how to hear dynamics and overcompression and I understand what EQ does, though I couldn't tell you about different forms of EQ....C00kie wrote:To know where/how to apply you first have to know what it does! Maybe that is the question you want the answer to? Well, do you?audiobot202 wrote:like I said, I'm not an engineer or audio scientist so I really just need a basic overview.
Where do I use the Limiter, where do I use the compression usually...how does the chain work....in general, not for any one particular track.
Once you have that knowledge you've taken the first step of becoming an engineer
Limiters tame rogue frequencies and put on a ceiling, as far as I understand..compression reduces the amplitude between the highest and the lowest parts of the mix, squashing it so to speak and making it perceivably louder and dithering adds low level noise to compensate for bit reduction. It's not my understanding...but when I come to use complex compression interfaces with lotsa dials and knobs...well...I'm not really up for that. I don't enjoy the ultra technical side of the process. I love sounds...I love music....that's where I'm coming from. Simple.
This is why I use presets for mastering. I can't shag it up then. And by and large, with a good mix, I get decent results.
I'm just asking for plug in suggestions that are intuitive and easy to use and suit my workflow and any ideas on hw they might be chained.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
You either need to learn this stuff, or let other people master your tunes. There is no magic plug-in or preset I'm afraid: the single most important element in a mastering session is the experienced engineer. If he/she listens to your mix, pronounces it perfect and does nothing, it is still now a mastered track!audiobot202 wrote:I don't want to be an engineer.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
If only that was true!audiobot202 wrote:This is why I use presets for mastering. I can't shag it up then.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 31 Jan, 2005
An idea of mine that I've had a few days ago, still hoping that jules thought of it before me.
Its basically the volume meter, but with a spectrum instead, so that in the left sample flow you could se what frequencies your sound occupy.
Putting one before any mastering plugin and one after would easy give you a visual impression of your sound.
Just a thought, and could probably be implemented in a few days at the most.
Its basically the volume meter, but with a spectrum instead, so that in the left sample flow you could se what frequencies your sound occupy.
Putting one before any mastering plugin and one after would easy give you a visual impression of your sound.
Just a thought, and could probably be implemented in a few days at the most.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
I think that's a good attitude when you make music for a living or need a contract or demo your tunes or have your eyes set on commercial success. I agree with you entirely in this case. Of course, if I was of a mind to want to be a commercial success, then I'd not bother learning any of that stuff; I'd simply take it to a mastering house and be done with it.platinumears wrote:You either need to learn this stuff, or let other people master your tunes. There is no magic plug-in or preset I'm afraid: the single most important element in a mastering session is the experienced engineer. If he/she listens to your mix, pronounces it perfect and does nothing, it is still now a mastered track!audiobot202 wrote:I don't want to be an engineer.
The reality is, that I'm a hobbyist and one who has rendered plenty of decent sounding mixes with dynamics . I don't care to enjoy commercial success as it is not my desire or motivation. And I do believe that one can make good sounding masters, not mastering house quality granted, with simple to use software. Part of the advatntage of all of these SE plugs, VST programmers etc..is that a hobbyist like myself can pick up an easy to use mastering plugin without unnderstanding everything there is to now about the finer points of mastering and actually produce a decent sounding mix.
So, I take a slightly different view here. There's someone who makes music and someone who can engineer a mix and the two don't necessarily have to be the same person. Sometimes they cross over, moreso in the indie realm and the hobbyist realm, but the two professions can be entirely exclusive. I am not a mastering engineer and I won't pretend to be one. I have limited knowledge and I'm learning bit by bit, but I'm not a beginner in the field. I have personal limits like anyone and have little patience for tweaking settings all day.
I think one can actually get away with still wanting to make music primarily and have a non technical bent. I can't use Synthedit either...unlike many people here....don't know the first thing about it...tried and failed miserably and got bored...but while they share some traits, making music is still a different beast to programming.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
why waste Jules's time with that?larsby wrote:An idea of mine that I've had a few days ago, still hoping that jules thought of it before me.
Its basically the volume meter, but with a spectrum instead, so that in the left sample flow you could se what frequencies your sound occupy.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 31 Jan, 2005
Thats good stuff, but still its not in the filter section. But thanx a bunch for the link!platinumears wrote:why waste Jules's time with that?larsby wrote:An idea of mine that I've had a few days ago, still hoping that jules thought of it before me.
Its basically the volume meter, but with a spectrum instead, so that in the left sample flow you could se what frequencies your sound occupy.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
larsby wrote:Thats good stuff, but still its not in the filter section. But thanx a bunch for the link!
I don't follow you..?-
- AcousticHippie
- 4769 posts since 12 Mar, 2003
Have you tried SimpleSqueeze from BetabugsAudio.... it's not really aimed at mastering but you could give it a try it's pretty simpleaudiobot202 wrote:...but when I come to use complex compression interfaces with lotsa dials and knobs...well...I'm not really up for that. I don't enjoy the ultra technical side of the process. I love sounds...I love music....that's where I'm coming from. Simple.
still you will find no presets there but you'll be able to cope with one knob I guess *gg*
apart from that I'd like to say that I really like to Mastering plugs.... well three but I use two of them most of the time
T-RackS - unbeaten for acoustic music... and Quantum-fx - for fullblown mixes..... Vintage Warmer and Ozone are nice, too but I tend to use the both mentioned before