KVR Audio

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:14 pm

when i registered Ableton live i ticked a box agreeing for Ableton to email me about news/newproducts etc , so they should of just emailed me about operator which they did and not have a Demo forced upon me when im installing a Bug fix update.

and i have to pay rent and eat too.

Cosmic Bandito · Post by **Cosmic Bandito** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:23 pm

I watched the rather long but thorough 'Operator' video from NAMM and have to say it looks fantastic judgeing by ease of use vs. quality or results. Just from the NAMM video alone and I understood the nuts and bolts of it, and that's a first for me with ANY FM synth. Sure, Rhino and Sytrus might sound a little better, but I'll be able to do more than flick through presets with Operator. The most Ergonomic FM to date with some clever extras thrown in IMO. Still waiting to test drive T2 though before I go whole hog and get the Live/Operator combo. When you add them together it is a little steep

.

CANE CREEK · Post by **CANE CREEK** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:35 pm

I did try the operator demo , i tried a bell patch held down 3 keys on my midi keyboard and the CPU hit 16% , I then held down the same 3 keys with spectrasonics atmopshere's biggest patch (hollywood strings) and the CPU hit 10% , Absynth 3 was hitting about the same as operator but absynth3's patches are far more complexed. FM7 uses a 3rd of the CPU of operator and sounds lightyears better . so operators CPU hit is currently a joke an update is needed.

audiobot202 · Post by **audiobot202** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:50 pm

griels wrote:
headquest wrote:Well the only thing that has changed in v4.1 is that a list of bugs have been squished and the demo of Operator has been thrown in.

Hardly a decent upgrade
Don't knock it, there are a lot of companies who charge for bugfixes (in the form of paid updates), or never fix known issues

Sorry if some Ableton customers feel they've been misled, but there are much worse behaved companies out there.

And this makes it better how?

arp_laszlo · Post by **arp_laszlo** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:52 pm

CANE CREEK wrote:and i have to pay rent and eat too.

i hope you're not as badly off as this guy.

so Ableton is now this Evil Company who Forces Demos on Unsuspecting People. they should be tarred & feathered, then drawn & quartered. how dare they include a demo of a product - i demand the use of those 4mb back. damn Hard Drive Wasters.

btw - comparing a sound generating synth to a sample-playback machine isn't a great comparison. the NI products do have better cpu usage, but they've been in the game a lot longer than Ableton.

maybe Ableton should stop listening to its users - adding VSTi support, the #1 request, has opened up a total can of worms.

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:54 pm

16%...?? Mine hit about 35% with a 3 note chord... Truly a HOG in my tests... If they GAVE it to me with the upgrade, I couldn't use it much... And considering that Absynth, FM7, and Pro-53 use about half the cpu... But I'm on a Mac, and the cpu issues are even worse... Live is a great audio app, but the addition of midi has proved too much for the engine...

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:59 pm

I did a test a while back with just a Simpler and one sample, no vst, no effects and the damn thing went to 6% (up to 25% cpu in task manager)

that's on a 3.2 P4, 800fsb and 1GIG PC4000 ram

griels · Post by **griels** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:06 pm

audiobot202 wrote:
griels wrote:
headquest wrote:Well the only thing that has changed in v4.1 is that a list of bugs have been squished and the demo of Operator has been thrown in.

Hardly a decent upgrade
Don't knock it, there are a lot of companies who charge for bugfixes (in the form of paid updates), or never fix known issues

Sorry if some Ableton customers feel they've been misled, but there are much worse behaved companies out there.
And this makes it better how?

My point is, they never lied about Operator being payware, and they're giving you the bugfixes for free. You didn't pay for any more than you're getting.

arp_laszlo wrote: so Ableton is now this Evil Company who Forces Demos on Unsuspecting People. they should be tarred & feathered, then drawn & quartered. how dare they include a demo of a product - i demand the use of those 4mb back. damn Hard Drive Wasters.

Exactly.

jcroot · Post by **jcroot** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:09 pm

This topic was (is) all the rage over at the ableton forum and was just as interesting in its first incarnation.

I still don't completely understand what the problem is. Ableton straightens out some problems in the first 4 release, improves stability, and throws in an inseparable demo instrument that doesn't take up CPU if it's not used, and doesn't nag you as long as you don't drag it into a track. To my knowledge, Ableton hasn't said that they will no longer update 4 so we can most likely expect further development. If it's not worth your money now, then how could it have been worth your money when you bought it without the 4.1 update?

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:20 pm

Look on the bright side... Reason users (of which I am one) have had to wait 2 years(!) for an extremely lame 2.5 to 3.0 update.

Ableton has, IMO, progressed light years in that time.

I think puting up with the Operator demo is a small price to pay.

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:24 pm

When is someone going to mention that bundling demos has been Image-Line's policy for a loooooong time?

FL Studio rules.

I love Live. I love Live 4.1 a bit better than 4.0.4. It works, stable as hell for me. Yes, it's a CPU hog and I agree that is issue #1 right now. I still love Live.

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:36 pm

Operator is a big yawn IMO. Way too expensive for a tied-down synth. The big disappointment for me is the lack of implementation of midi note preview - I cannot work without it - I do not use audio loops much. I was told directly that it woul dbe done and come 4.1 it was not. am using Live less and less. I am not sure I will be interested enough to pay for another upgrade. Live => Dead!

DHR53 · Post by **DHR53** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:37 pm

Hmmm... 4.1 seems to run just the same as 4.04, so I can't really verify the bugs they fixed... I can't tell ANY difference between 4.1 and 4.04, and maybe that IS the problem... Now, they certainly have the right to use an "update" to throw in a little marketing for a new product, but myself, I was looking for optimization for dual processors, or better integration of the midi functions... I wouldn't buy Operator, but who knows... the marketplace around here proves the "impulse" nature of DAW obsession! ...Myself, I'm looking for "real value" in my purchases these days, whether they're upgrades or new purchases... Not another "impulse buy" soon the be a "license transfer"...

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:42 pm

Regarding CPU, Robert Henke replied on the Ableton forum:

You have to realise that we have to work on a lot of issues. People want features, and they want these features to work better then in our competitors products because this is why the use ours. They also want the best possible sound quality, which usually also leads to higher CPU usage. We are constantly trying to improve the product, and CPU optimisation is *always* on our list, but if this would be the only thing we work on, we would not have the chance to do it for long, since we would not survive on this market.

In other words, improving Live 4's cpu handling won;t earn them any more income, while developing new synths possibly will.

It's an interesting perspective on customer service

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:45 pm

JohnVulich wrote:Look on the bright side... Reason users (of which I am one) have had to wait 2 years(!) for an extremely lame 2.5 to 3.0 update.

According to whom? I was in the beta test, and I think those who have used Reason 3 are for most part blown away by it.

Perhaps that's why so many people over at the Ableton forum are saying they will spend their hard-earned on the Reason 3 upgrade, and NOT Ableton's Operator.

ABLETON LIVE 4.1 upgrade , Not happy...