I for my own miss very much (most) a smart mouse context menu like on just any other application...
This circunstance drives me crazy.
New ergonomics are a good thing, but if they are too different from known and usual ergonomics, it is a pain.
ABLETON LIVE 4.1 upgrade , Not happy...
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- KVRian
- 1325 posts since 1 Sep, 2004
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- KVRAF
- 2744 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World
My biggest gripe with Live 4 is the absence of the right mouse key. Even on my Mac I use a "normal" mouse and I keep hitting the right mouse button to no avail... 
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky
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- KVRian
- 1325 posts since 1 Sep, 2004
kovacs wrote:My biggest gripe with Live 4 is the absence of the right mouse key. Even on my Mac I use a "normal" mouse and I keep hitting the right mouse button to no avail...
Thats exactly what I did try to express in my post before.
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- KVRAF
- 2744 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World
I probably spent so much time typing my extremely intelligent post that you managed to post yours in the meantime.jackle&hyde wrote:Thats exactly what I did try to express in my post before.
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky
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Cosmic Bandito Cosmic Bandito https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=55429
- KVRist
- 307 posts since 21 Jan, 2005
Beardedone,Beardedone wrote:Thanks Eric. And a very good afternoon to you!
Sonically, I don't see any need for Operator what with FM synths like Sytrus and Phantom in my stable. Trouble is though I like these a lot but cannot program them at all I am stuck with the presets. I have Cameleon5000, Symptohm and z3ta- and alas I also cannot figure how to program these. I can manage program Albino2, Pentagon, and Square which work well with eXT preset generator. Kontakt, ST2 and SS2 fill most any sampled synth sound I could want. The possible value in Operator for me could be if it actually is user friendly for sound design. I will have to see if this is the case as as they advertise.
I've tried Sytrus and a few other FM's and never got anywhere, LOVED the sound but tire of presets easily. With Operator it seems it does what it says on tin - FM done Ableton stylee. There really are little presets but go through the tutorials, watch the NAMM video and dive in. It's really designed to be programmed and for people to be able to control meaningful parameters very easily. Design and (blahh)workflow are priority here. I think alot of people don't 'get it', but if you want to get off the 'synth merry go round', and just get things done with a few synths, it doesn't get better than this. If your more than an intermediate programmer, there are better options, however I really like what they created here and think they are being chastized for going against popular opinion. It's seems designed to encourage sound design rather than impressing you with tons of presets that you will discard in 6 months when you can't program it and get bored. I thinks its the best marriage of results vs. ease in the FM world.
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.
-Niels Bohr
-Niels Bohr
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- KVRAF
- 4878 posts since 13 Jun, 2002 from Montreal
Thanks Cosmic! I will have a try. I do wish though that Operator wasn't tied-down to Live. I know about Rewire but that is not flexible enough and frankly rarely works properly for me in Sonar and has yet to function in FLS 5.
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
the 3. POINts that are being totally missed is that:
1. Ableton updates/upgrades include more and in a vastly shorter amount of time than any other app. period!!! this is fact. so I don't understand how people can complain about this and then say they're going to use something else because of it cause whatever else they are using is much much worse in this regard, hence that argument doesn't make any sense. (research it)
2.who cares about operator, it does not have a nag screen, you do not have to use it, it sits nicely on the left side of the screen in the browser taking up space that you would not be using anyway. and just like in ableton fashion, the demo is actualy more functional than most, don't buy it, use the demo and bounce tracks....whoopdydoooo and you didn't pay for anything. how can people complain about this
3.why do people keep saying ableton dropped the upgrade ball....just like always they have been working on updating/upgrading Live 4 at the same time
they have been working on operator, so that they could keep their eyes on Live they even had (for our benefit albeit) somebody else do the operator job. so all the complaining about what they did or didn't do to Live 4 is rediculous, they're working on it right now. I will go find the post that the head of ableton put on the live forum so you can see. all of the complaints in this thread are directly addressed by these three points I listed. as far as I can tell people are flat out not listening to reality.
1. Ableton updates/upgrades include more and in a vastly shorter amount of time than any other app. period!!! this is fact. so I don't understand how people can complain about this and then say they're going to use something else because of it cause whatever else they are using is much much worse in this regard, hence that argument doesn't make any sense. (research it)
2.who cares about operator, it does not have a nag screen, you do not have to use it, it sits nicely on the left side of the screen in the browser taking up space that you would not be using anyway. and just like in ableton fashion, the demo is actualy more functional than most, don't buy it, use the demo and bounce tracks....whoopdydoooo and you didn't pay for anything. how can people complain about this
3.why do people keep saying ableton dropped the upgrade ball....just like always they have been working on updating/upgrading Live 4 at the same time
they have been working on operator, so that they could keep their eyes on Live they even had (for our benefit albeit) somebody else do the operator job. so all the complaining about what they did or didn't do to Live 4 is rediculous, they're working on it right now. I will go find the post that the head of ableton put on the live forum so you can see. all of the complaints in this thread are directly addressed by these three points I listed. as far as I can tell people are flat out not listening to reality.
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
now here is what Alex of Ableton said, i'm having trouble with linking so I'll post incase it doesn't work.
link
http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=forum
and this is his exact post:
Hi folks,
I give you a hint, look into the Operator about view and count the numbers of Ableton developers.
Compare this number with the numbers of developers Ableton could have and then think or meditate about what the difference could mean.
regards,
Alex
_________________
alex@ableton.com
www.ableton.com
_________________
link
http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=forum
and this is his exact post:
Hi folks,
I give you a hint, look into the Operator about view and count the numbers of Ableton developers.
Compare this number with the numbers of developers Ableton could have and then think or meditate about what the difference could mean.
regards,
Alex
_________________
alex@ableton.com
www.ableton.com
_________________
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
so you know they're going to open up a can of whoop ass cause they've seen what's up at namm and the only thing remotely interesting in the same vein is project 5, which is looking great imho, but is still only following abletons footsteps.
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
Like I said earlier in the thread... look at Reason. Two years of development and the best they could come up with is a Mastering Suite (for a progam that doesn't even have audio tracks or audio input LOL!), the Combinator, a few fixes and live playing enhancements...stale bread wrote:1. Ableton updates/upgrades include more and in a vastly shorter amount of time than any other app. period!!! this is fact. so I don't understand how people can complain about this and then say they're going to use something else because of it cause whatever else they are using is much much worse in this regard, hence that argument doesn't make any sense. (research it)
Don't get me wrong, Reason is a great program but TWO YEARS(!) for a minor 2.5 to 3.0 upgrade?
The Ableton team have, IMO, done an outstanding job of developing the program over the last few years. The addition of MIDI and VSTis was quite a welcome and well implemented surprise.
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- KVRian
- 1024 posts since 25 Apr, 2002
I'm rambling here so bare with me:
I've had the privilege of using the new version at a friend's house and i have to say it's really good. i'm not too experienced with previous versions to compare let's say v3 with v4.04 or v.41, but it's been good so far. i do see the points about high CPU usage: i'm not sure if this is related but it does stutter with VSTi but only when playing them for the first time within your project ( the problem reminds me of how a system would stutter when loading a wav file in the middle of the thing playing ). it's a problem that goes away after the initial stutters, so it's not a huge factor when producing music at home. but i see this to be a major problem if using Live in a live situation.
but as far as CPU usage is concerned, like my friend said, you have to remember that Live was first and foremost an app for playing live, and to make a super stable application that could render edits, crazy tweaking, outrageous tempo changes, realtime song orientation shifting, timestretching and pitchshifting, and over the top sample triggering without a hiccup while onstage in front of X amount of people, they probably had to make the code use a bit more resources than let's say Cubase SX. that said, i do believe adding MIDI and VSTi support added more challenges to the code and optimizing. but i believe it will be fix in due time.
as far as the Operator arguments, i side with both camps. I haven't used it yet (coz i forgot, lol) but i have heard it and it's good. but i do not think it's worth $150 if it's integrated in Live only. maybe if it was a multiplatform, yes. i personaly will save the $$$ for FM7 as it is far superior and only cost about $100 more (right?).
but i dont see anyting wrong with including the demo in the upgrade. it's not offending anyone, it's not hogging any extra CPU, there are no pop-ups,and it's not freezing the app if not used. like it has been said before, you are not forced to use it or buy it, and i would advice people to look into other options for FM synths.
but at the same time, just because you dont have to use it if you do not want to doesnt mean you cannot voice your opinions on this and any other matter. the more this gets voiced the better results the consumers wil get in future releases. i'm sure as a developer it is better to hear from your crowd than not hear from it at all. like going to a sold out concert and playing all your hit songs, but noone claps, cheers, or stage dives...even when the concert is sold out!!!
wut a dumb example
I've had the privilege of using the new version at a friend's house and i have to say it's really good. i'm not too experienced with previous versions to compare let's say v3 with v4.04 or v.41, but it's been good so far. i do see the points about high CPU usage: i'm not sure if this is related but it does stutter with VSTi but only when playing them for the first time within your project ( the problem reminds me of how a system would stutter when loading a wav file in the middle of the thing playing ). it's a problem that goes away after the initial stutters, so it's not a huge factor when producing music at home. but i see this to be a major problem if using Live in a live situation.
but as far as CPU usage is concerned, like my friend said, you have to remember that Live was first and foremost an app for playing live, and to make a super stable application that could render edits, crazy tweaking, outrageous tempo changes, realtime song orientation shifting, timestretching and pitchshifting, and over the top sample triggering without a hiccup while onstage in front of X amount of people, they probably had to make the code use a bit more resources than let's say Cubase SX. that said, i do believe adding MIDI and VSTi support added more challenges to the code and optimizing. but i believe it will be fix in due time.
as far as the Operator arguments, i side with both camps. I haven't used it yet (coz i forgot, lol) but i have heard it and it's good. but i do not think it's worth $150 if it's integrated in Live only. maybe if it was a multiplatform, yes. i personaly will save the $$$ for FM7 as it is far superior and only cost about $100 more (right?).
but i dont see anyting wrong with including the demo in the upgrade. it's not offending anyone, it's not hogging any extra CPU, there are no pop-ups,and it's not freezing the app if not used. like it has been said before, you are not forced to use it or buy it, and i would advice people to look into other options for FM synths.
but at the same time, just because you dont have to use it if you do not want to doesnt mean you cannot voice your opinions on this and any other matter. the more this gets voiced the better results the consumers wil get in future releases. i'm sure as a developer it is better to hear from your crowd than not hear from it at all. like going to a sold out concert and playing all your hit songs, but noone claps, cheers, or stage dives...even when the concert is sold out!!!
wut a dumb example-
- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
not dumb at all-
- KVRAF
- 2744 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World
Well...obviously it offends a lot of people. But I frankly don't understand the fuzz.sweet_trip wrote:but i dont see anyting wrong with including the demo in the upgrade. it's not offending anyone
My Soundcloud Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]