KVR Audio

Vinz · Post by **Vinz** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:48 am

On a side note I just wanted to say that the 16 notes super crisp basslines in psytrance are boring to death, there are already enough gms wannabes and it would be nice if people finally moved on to something else

What's funny is that it seems every week a new israeli kid gets an album out on phonokol with that f*cking bassline, so they don't seem to have much difficulty pulling it out

insaneacyde · Post by **insaneacyde** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:21 pm

er maybe you like the two anvils clanking of industrial?
or the rip off of a rip off latest rnb?
maybe you like gangsta rap of "how tuff life is on the streets" by the latest private school, golf playin, mercedes drivin playa?
maybe you bang your head to the latest "my mommy and daddy shouted at me so i angry!" NU Metal band?
maybe your better than anyone else and like Aphex Twin?
maybe you one of those wierdo's who listens to prog rock which hasn't progged since 1976?
maybe you listen to your Mommy!
but you're right!!

all music sucks big time and appeals to you in your fuzzy primal area that no-one can fathom.

yes, psy trance has reached a stage where it's formulised and slightly cheesed - thanx to guys like Skazi and his cheese ass aproach to it - but not as much as some of the above genres, so put that in your pipe and wait for the hash to come round

insaneacyde · Post by **insaneacyde** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:29 pm

ps. I actually listen to prog rock
and Nu metal like Kworn n sometimes even a little very cheesey commercial industrial and what the heck I even listen to my Mommy!

I'm going home now

Ackelito · Post by **Ackelito** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:30 pm

This is my point!

Either you make music or you sit infront of the screen trying to make everything so f**king perfect that you lose the spark! which is what you have to do before you can make "good" music, but together they wont make you any "good" music... the idea to practise and work hard is to be ready too catch a moment and get on with it! without tuning a baseline in 5 hours, cause then you lost that feeling you had a long time ago.
I think music can sometimes lose its soul when you try too much!

music should be about feelings and feelings comes quick and goes away pretty quick... a baseline wont stand for the whole feeling, it dosent have to sound perfect for the tune to be feelt they way you want it to be feelt!

but it seems we are not talking about music here, its all about technique...

you talk about Hux Flux, well their album Cryptic Crunch came in 1999, its 6 years ago! their baseline is not clean and crisp, but it fits the music well, and thats what its all about, making everything fit and blend..

if you are talking about the "Division By Zero" album, well its not the same Constellation of members. and that album is not even close to the magic that cryptic crunch has..

How do you explain a Hux-Flux bassline to someone here at KVR? I mean sure people have heard of Juno Reactor and GMS etc but what you are looking for is underground, cutting edge psy-shit man!

you dont always have to explain things.. its a good thing, i wouldnt want anyone to be able to explain how my sounds are made..

btw hux flux is not underground!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:05 pm

Ackelito wrote:This is my point!

Either you make music or you sit infront of the screen trying to make everything so f**king perfect that you lose the spark! which is what you have to do before you can make "good" music, but together they wont make you any "good" music... the idea to practise and work hard is to be ready too catch a moment and get on with it! without tuning a baseline in 5 hours, cause then you lost that feeling you had a long time ago.

I agree and this is why it's important to lay down that original bassline/idea quickly and without quantize or whatever and save it for later reference. Then you can start tweaking around but I usually find that the longer I tweak without satisfaction the worse it gets so it's good to know when to quit (this applies very much so to mixing and mastering too!). It's better to quit in time and get back to the issue some other day and start with fresh inspiration/ears.

Cheers!
bManic

insaneacyde · Post by **insaneacyde** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:28 am

Ackelito wrote:This is my point!

Either you make music or you sit infront of the screen trying to make everything so f**king perfect that you lose the spark! which is what you have to do before you can make "good" music, but together they wont make you any "good" music... the idea to practise and work hard is to be ready too catch a moment and get on with it! without tuning a baseline in 5 hours, cause then you lost that feeling you had a long time ago.
I think music can sometimes lose its soul when you try too much! !

I agree with you 100% this is why I need to lay down a bassline that sounds as good as the rest of the instruments in a particular track at that time. My tracks sound good to me and others see? I know how to use alot of synths and fx and stuff. The body of my tracks - drums, leads, fx etc, sound good right from the begining, why doesnt my bassline? If this is technique that's wierd because this problem has been in my life way longer than any other techniques or problems. I dont sit and tweak the crap outta everything else so why would I have to do this for the bass? I'm dying to get my tracks flying! I have lead synths ready to go with my own presets vavavoom quick, quick bam! or my kicks n snares n hats all ready to rumble ....the bass does not even compare.
The bass is plodding effort just to get it playing 16 notes without sounding like wet poop then 5 FXplugs later it sounds well, not half as good as everything else.
*even xoxos admits to designing his own bass synth in some "secret" modular program!*
Anyway this is all irrelevant. I now have a decent setup that I continue to try and improve on. I really dont think using generic advice like try EQ or compression applies to the intricacies of a psy bassline it's a very important factor not like in rock or something where it can be a note emphasis for the kick drum. There has always been techniques, tuts etc for everything else to check or help from friends but the bassline side has always been in the dark. I'ts gotten to the point where I think I should leave my love for psy and carry on with other music.

About Hux-Flux

Yes, yes, Cryptic Crunch was better, but DUDE! I disagree with you about the bass i.e Bring your own bios?
Where I live Hux-Flux are not the norm - way too much generic israeli stuff gets pumped around here!

this post is so long i should be shot

hujaboy · Post by **hujaboy** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:32 am

for basslines i use Logic Esm i sample them from logic and use them on halion 2 in cubase.
and Spectrasonics Trilogy for some fat ass sub oozing bass.
On sonic tonic (my last album) i used mostly the cubase vb 1.

I use only gentle eq on the bass.

and i always play with the delay time and the length of the notes.

u can hear the new basses on the new trax coming out on Solstice Spun Tip and cystal matrix.

Good luck

Nir (Hujaboy E-jekt)

insaneacyde · Post by **insaneacyde** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:54 pm

thanks for the advice Hujaboy!
I have heard good things about the logic synths, I will have to find the extra cash for the last pc version.
Just for that I will have to check out some of your new music!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:03 pm

Just accidentally I happen to have some sampled ESM patches available.
You can find them here:
http://sascha.presetbank.com
Multisamples (in minor thirds), 3 octaves, EXS and Kontakt formats included, all samples named and looped properly.
Feel free to use them for whatever you want. CDxtract or Translator should convert them to other formats fine.

No, I don't feel bad about sampling Emagic's instruments and spreading the samples. Wouldn't do so in case they hadn't f**ked me.

There's only 3 patches right now, tell me if you like them, I got some more.

Many thanks to Audioshot for hosting!

Ackelito · Post by **Ackelito** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:49 pm

@insaneacyde

About the Hux Flux thing, i really love their basses, and Logic Bombs aswell.. but the word crisp is not how i would explain them... maybe round and deep to throbby and edgy.. ahh wtf, they Just R...

you see i think we put to much wight in quality these days... when i think we instead should aim at balance... balance beats quality.. or maybe balance is quality... beats me, im getting kind of philosophical so i better round this off.. i tend to get that way at times

So you got a baseline problem, well so do i at times, whats the remedy? stop trying so hard and get something else to fiddle with.. at least thats my remedy.. and bmanic´s aswell if i understood him correctly ... you can always polish things later..

again i ask, does the baseline have to be top notch? its a important element in psytrance and many other genres but sometimes we act crazy about the whole thing... not everything can turn out like we want them to in a fast and smooth way, at least not until we find a fast and smooth way

i find the things in the lowend to be a tricky thing
sometimes its hard to find the right balance..

____________________________

Sascha Franck! Thanks m8, really nice

i like the way they sound!

is it possible to buy those Logic synths and use thme in cubase? they really look Futuristic and nice..

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:22 pm

Ackelito wrote: Sascha Franck! Thanks m8, really nice
i like the way they sound!

You're welcome.

is it possible to buy those Logic synths and use thme in cubase? they really look Futuristic and nice...

Unfortunately not. They're embedded into Logic.
That's why I'm sampling them piece by piece - a) because I won't make the switch to a Mac too fast and b) because I have to use Cubase anyways for several reasons and won't like to miss the sound of some.
Sampling them has got some pros anyways - the ESM all of a sudden gets polyphonic

Also, Kontakt has got quite some nice mangling options.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:17 pm

I uploaded 3 more patches. Same link as before.

ahja · Post by **ahja** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:34 pm

Use Pentagon (or pretty much all subtractive synths with stable oscillators....

1) If you choose to use two or more oscillators, hard sync them.

2) Filter ADSR:
Attack: Something close to 0ms
Decay: 20-50%
Substain: 0ms, or something close
Release: 0-10%

3) Adjust Filter Env to liking, ussually +15-50%. This will increase or decrease the initial click upon triggering. To cut through in a busy mix, higher is definetely better.

4) Play with note length.

Ackelito · Post by **Ackelito** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:41 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:I uploaded 3 more patches. Same link as before.

Thanks man! good stuff!

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:30 am

think lots of people go thru a phase where you take 2 months to make a song with 4 sounds in it, spending 3 contiguous 8 hour days trying to decide if the cutoff should be 38 and the env 23 or the cutoff 37 and the env at 24.. mine lasted couple years.

then you get tired of it :p

and when you're there at that point, you know why too!

articulating, crisp 1/16 bass