2005,Hardware effect company finally gets the picture

[bMachine]

..sorry

[Alan]

My guess is you can only have one VST instance with this unit

Not if it's represented by a VST plugin which would make it no different than how the PoCo FW integrates into a system.To me it comes down to this,even though it's a lower end unit,if it sounds better than the included Element verbs it's a steal at $200.00,if not,I'm going to wait for for a higher end model.Quality Reverb is the most difficult thing to obtain in a plugin so far and besides VSTi's it eats more CPU than most plugs,so to me having a rack as a dedicated reverb that absorbs CPU makes sense.At this point the PoCo idea is definitely on the shelf for me now.Yes,I see this type of integration between hardware and softwre a bit late(I wanted it sooner),but if quality hardware company's follow suit with this type of integration theyr'e going to bury the current Poco/UAD/Accel solutions and wer'e going to want them.In the meantime,anybody hear the MX200?

[AndrewSimon]

I have not heard the MX200 but I assume it is the same as the MPX200 + the USB interface. (same price range too)

The funny thing is that I always though this unit sounded quite good, and it did to my ears in live application but once I hooked it up to my DAW and A/B it with UAD-1 I realized it's not even close.

Two big questions here:
1 Latency?
2 All presets saved and recalled within the song?

One thing for sure if they do this VST integration with their high end reverbs it will be something to consider. (thou I am 100% satisfied with the UAD-1)

[Sicklecell666]

Looks cool to me. This is probably a market test before they invest in the Big Guns..

[JonathanDragonDJ]

it seems to my the powercore firewire
is really all you need for external fx
having a big rackmount unit just for reverb
is basically going in the opposite direction of most studios these days
you can hook up and old reverb unit to your system pretty easily...just have to play the track through the reverb unit and mix it down one track at a time
o well
my opinion

[DuX]

Like AndrewSimon said: Latency... I'm worried about the latency of this thing. USB is no good for audio and that's a fact. Firewire is much much better with streaming audio or video. Personally, the only thing I'd attach to USB port is... hmmm almost nothing Mouse works better over PS2, drives work better over FireWire and pretty much every drive be it optical or magnetical works better over FireWire including [especially] the external sound interfaces. I find USB just practical, but not professional. USB keys, Palm Pilot, Camera... but certainly not Lexicon reverb

[Omniphonix]

Two big questions here:
1 Latency?
2 All presets saved and recalled within the song?

This is my concern as well. All the literature says "...with full automation and recall features" but says nothing of reporting latency to the host (PDC) as Virus TI does. So I think this answers your Question 2, but not 1. I'm also concerned about how many instances. $200 is a bit much if I can only use it in one or two insert channels.

[Omniphonix]

Like AndrewSimon said: Latency... I'm worried about the latency of this thing. USB is no good for audio and that's a fact. Firewire is much much better with streaming audio or video. Personally, the only thing I'd attach to USB port is... hmmm almost nothing Mouse works better over PS2, drives work better over FireWire and pretty much every drive be it optical or magnetical works better over FireWire including [especially] the external sound interfaces. I find USB just practical, but not professional. USB keys, Palm Pilot, Camera... but certainly not Lexicon reverb

Keep in mind Virus TI uses USB for the interface. You can set the USB protocol to stream mode and it can work well. I have an M-Audio interface for my laptop that uses USB and offers just as good a latency as my MOTU 828mkII (granted, not nearly as good of AD/DAs and much fewer I/Os). The concern is, does it report the latency to the host for delay compensation.

[Alan]

it seems to my the powercore firewire
is really all you need for external fx

i don't think the PoCo reverbs can compete with hardware reverbs just yet.

having a big rackmount unit just for reverb
is basically going in the opposite direction of most studios these days

I couldn't disagree more.Reverb is the biggest CPU killer out there(besides VSTi's)and even then quality is still compromised.If you had the money,are you saying you wouldn't want a Lexicon 960 Rack unit represented by VST plugs? if there's something out there that would remotely compete with that,let me know.How about a high end comp or EQ that can be plugged in a chain via FW or USB 2.1 and called up like plugs.When our CPU's catch up to dedicated DSP's I'll forget about this idea.

you can hook up and old reverb unit to your system pretty easily...just have to play the track through the reverb unit and mix it down one track at a time

I guess time and latencey means nothing.

[DuX]

I could live with Lexicon 960 even over serial port...

[contrast]

i don't think the PoCo reverbs can compete with hardware reverbs just yet.

Like their new plugin that is an algorithm from the m3000?

Which is not even a crap hardware reverb. I don't understand this point.

I still think that particular plugin is overpriced as I've expressed here before, but to say it doesn't compare with the hardware when it essentially IS the hardware does not make much sense.

Of course maybe you don't like the TC-style verbs, which is fine, but I still don't think you can call them crap, exactly.

[Alan]

to say it doesn't compare with the hardware when it essentially IS the hardware does not make much sense.

I made the comment,not JonathanDragonDJ.I also think you missed my point.Yes,the new TC verb is "based" on the same algorithm as the 3000 and is very nice from what I hear but the hardware version has more DSP Power and the 3000 is not TC's best offering either(let alone Lexicon's) coupled with the fact that some users like the newer mid priced hardware from TC and Lexicon better than the plugin,but the point is the TC 3000 EMU is not an M4000 hardware unit,or Lexicon 960 and to some peoples ears,not as good as a lower end Lexicon MX500.The whole point of this thread is if all hardware units came with a plugin front end via FW there would be a lot more quality and choice availible.The PoCo and UAD is nice but I'd hate to think that that's all there is as far as choices go,besides the fact that the DSP on those cards and boxes are limited and are all purpouse variety's.Then there's the issue of budget,to get the TC 3000 EMU you have to get an Element($375.00)or FW box($1200.00)then an additional $640.00(roughly)for the 3000 emu,that's at least $1,000.00 for a nice verb with limited power.Since I'm not personally interested in what the rest of the card offers I'd rather have let's say the TC M-4000 for $1,500 more and get what I want without the PoCo power limitation,or maybe I'd like a Lexicon PCM 80/81 or 91 or someone else might want the lower end Lexicon not to mention other brands(Kurzweil for instance),but at the moment my only choice for quality reverb plugins is either the PoCo with the 3000 add on or UAD with the plate option or static convolution.Not saying those aren't nice options but at the moment that's all there is,in the meantime hardware companies were basically sitting on excellent alternatives for the last couple of years with no way to interface with DAW users like PoCo and UAD.The Lexicon MX2000 represents a first step in opening up hardware boxes up for DAW plugin users,hopefully other companies will follow suit with other effects as well(EQ/Comps etc.).The whole point of this thread is it's about time,unless your happy being restricted to whatever TC and UAD come up with(not that that's bad).

[Forever Sun]

For the life of me,I cannot understand why hardware effect companies didn't start doing this 3 years ago http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM05 ... MX200.html and why other still dont.Not sure about this particular Lex unit,or USB instead of FireWire but at least one company got the picture.

I think that the hardware companies are stuck in a permanent---> mode after seeing the VST revolution of the past many years. The 'YamRolKorgi eating Digitechs Artfully' corporations are so fat, they are unable to move quickly when moving quickly is required.

Is this a good theory ?

[grotman]

Damn skippy. bring it on ....f$%k piracy and all its guises. go Leki

[ArneyS]

Is this card using USB or USB2, becuase USB2 is faster than firewire.