Cubase SX 2 cuts high frequencies?

[DwarfNebula]

oh, lots of confusion in here. for the record:

1) cubase processes internally w/ 32bit (floating point) regardless of your project settings

2) the project settings just affect the audio files genereated in the project (not the exported audio mixdown)

3) on the audio mixdown you can choose the bitrate freely. if you choose 16 bit (w/ no dither plugin used) cubase will truncate from 32 to 16 bit (=loosing quality). so if you choose a bitrate lower than 32 you have to use dither plugin for keeping quality. if you want to do further processing outside cubase you should keep the bitrate at 32, no dither needed (or go to 24 bits).

[snooky]

oh, lots of confusion in here. for the record:

1) cubase processes internally w/ 32bit (floating point) regardless of your project settings

2) the project settings just affect the audio files genereated in the project (not the exported audio mixdown)

3) on the audio mixdown you can choose the bitrate freely. if you choose 16 bit (w/ no dither plugin used) cubase will truncate from 32 to 16 bit (=loosing quality). so if you choose a bitrate lower than 32 you have to use dither plugin for keeping quality. if you want to do further processing outside cubase you should keep the bitrate at 32, no dither needed (or go to 24 bits using dither).

BUT, if you use any plugs to process the audio after mixdown, those plugs also uses 32bit or higher internal processing, and thus you should dither to keep the quality...however, if you also dithered when exporting, you get alot of dither noise and it could get inte audible range.

you don't need to dither if mixing down to 24 bits...if you mixdown with higher bits, like 32, it's just random nrs taking up disk space.

Mixdown to 24 bits/no dither then apply dither during post-prodution!

[Orbitutle]

Thanks.. that cleared a few things up for me.. Not to highjack this thread or anything... But currently there is an other 96 vs. 44khz debate..
Wouldn't it always be best to mix at default setting, so the cpu doesn't jam to much, and then mixdown at the highest possible quality 96/32 or 192/32, and then diether with your mastering prog?

[snooky]

Thanks.. that cleared a few things up for me.. Not to highjack this thread or anything... But currently there is an other 96 vs. 44khz debate..
Wouldn't it always be best to mix at default setting, so the cpu doesn't jam to much, and then mixdown at the highest possible quality 96/32 or 192/32, and then diether with your mastering prog?

if you only use softsynth or samplers...any audio will not benefit (depending on original sample rate) if the audio isn't allready recorded at those samplerates/bitrates

[DwarfNebula]

...if you want to do further processing outside cubase you should keep the bitrate at 32, no dither needed (or go to 24 bits using dither).

BUT, if you use any plugs to process the audio after mixdown, those plugs also uses 32bit or higher internal processing, and thus you should dither to keep the quality...however, if you also dithered when exporting, you get alot of dither noise and it could get inte audible range.

...

as i said, thanks for repeating . but you're right when saying you dont need dither from 32 to 24 (truncation is alright then coz its way in the inaudible range).

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[snooky]

dither should be in the master (summing) output...and only used once!

[IIRs]

If your project is in 16bit and you mixdown to 16bit, you shouldn't need to dither (I could b rong here please correct me if you 100%)

Yes you are wrong. Go back and read the thread. You use a 32-bit mixing engine no matter what bit depth you record you files at, and you will be losing quality if you don't use dither at the final stage.

There is no rule that says only dither once: the rule actually says "dither whenever the word-length is reduced". If you export a 24-bit file for mastering you should really add 24-bit dither noise, even if you plan to re-dither to 16-bits when you master for CD.

<edit> I can't say I've ever actually heard a 24-bit truncation, but I definitely hear it at 16-bit.

You should however, only dither to 16-bit once as the very last stage.

[butter]

that's right. A big reason that dithering is there is to compensate for the cd technology (which is somewhat outdated at this point) that's out there. You only dither the final, final mixdown after the track is mastered.

[DwarfNebula]

Yes you are wrong. Go back and read the thread. You use a 32-bit mixing engine no matter what bit depth you record you files at, and you will be losing quality if you don't use dither at the final stage.

There is no rule that says only dither once: the rule actually says "dither whenever the word-length is reduced". If you export a 24-bit file for mastering you should really add 24-bit dither noise, even if you plan to re-dither to 16-bits when you master for CD.

<edit> I can't say I've ever actually heard a 24-bit truncation, but I definitely hear it at 16-bit.

You should however, only dither to 16-bit once as the very last stage.

yep, all said.

and i think no one ever has heard 24bit truncation which should be at around -144db.

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[IIRs]

So if i process the audio with the uv22 and then immediatly (ie make no changes at all) mixdown, im not actually dithering properly?

Not sure I understand you.. uv22 is built into Cubase is it not? I would imagine they have implemented it correctly after the master fader, so if you export at 16-bit with uv22 turned on you should be ok. If you use a 3rd party dither plug, then you need to make sure that there is no change to the signal afterwards, ie; make sure the master fader is at unity, and don't make any changes to the rendered file (other than maybe trimming the starts and ends obviously.. no fades though!)

[DwarfNebula]

So if i process the audio with the uv22 and then immediatly (ie make no changes at all) mixdown, im not actually dithering properly?

:

you dont need to process at all, just be sure that you have uv22hr in last pos in the master chain turned on when exporting an audio mixdown of the main out.

[DuX]

To make this thread complete and to contribute something to it, I have to mention one thing: when truncating from 32bit to 24bit, it's not a bad idea to use dithering, but you don't have to use noise shaping at that stage. I know, i know, nobody can hear that , but I'm a perfectionist and can't help it . I keep my masters in 32bit, just in case...

Cheers!

[kouts]

Thanks all for your contribution to my problem!
I don't think there is a problem with my setup.
I have Echo MIA soundcard connected with balanced cables to TR6 event monitors.
I set the project in cubase to 44/16. So i suppose
that anything i hear when i'm playing back the mix(before exporting) is 44/16 (vsti's and audio files).
But if cubase is using 32bit internal then i should choose to export in 32bit WITHOUT dithering for further editing in soundforge (mastering) and then the last step in soundforge would be a dither plugin and export to 44/16 in order to burn the track to the cd. If that's the case then maybe if i export individual tracks (to save cpu) i should export them in 44/32bit?