Drums in T?
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Just wondering what everyone uses for drum tracks in T: what plugs, what loops, what tricks and techniques? Anything and everything would be interesting and helpful to hear.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I do any of 4 different things:
1. Beta Monkey audio loops. They're not all perfectly sized, though, which usually means it's best to arrange your drum track first. Once it's arranged, you can either cross-fade or selectively re-tempo specific measures.
2. Create MIDI file from scratch, either in the editor or using Subminimal's Stepchild step-sequencer
3. Create MIDI file based on one 'liberated' from elsewhere, preferably royalty-free. In the end, the file shouldn't be the same (unless it IS royalty-free), but I see it as fair game as a starting point-- much like listening to a song and then programming a beat based on that song, except with the legwork taken out of the equation.
4. Use MIDI loops -- Groove Monkee has spectacular stuff, though I've only used the demos. Been meaning to get around to a purchase sooner than later...
For #2, 3, and 4, I use either sfz (alongside soundfonts and custom-built sfz format files); or I use my fairly new Sampletank 2 LE along with the Sonic Reality Combo Kits.
Greg
1. Beta Monkey audio loops. They're not all perfectly sized, though, which usually means it's best to arrange your drum track first. Once it's arranged, you can either cross-fade or selectively re-tempo specific measures.
2. Create MIDI file from scratch, either in the editor or using Subminimal's Stepchild step-sequencer
3. Create MIDI file based on one 'liberated' from elsewhere, preferably royalty-free. In the end, the file shouldn't be the same (unless it IS royalty-free), but I see it as fair game as a starting point-- much like listening to a song and then programming a beat based on that song, except with the legwork taken out of the equation.
4. Use MIDI loops -- Groove Monkee has spectacular stuff, though I've only used the demos. Been meaning to get around to a purchase sooner than later...
For #2, 3, and 4, I use either sfz (alongside soundfonts and custom-built sfz format files); or I use my fairly new Sampletank 2 LE along with the Sonic Reality Combo Kits.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 2166 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from For me to know, for you to find out
Hey Braj
I use 2 differnt softwares for drums, Sampletank 2XL, and Battery 2. They both have thier pros and cons. Overall, Sampletank sounds "naturally" better while Battery is easier to tweak each drum.
Once I find the "sound" I'm looking for, I record the kick drum and snare to the piano scroll with a midi controller. Then I go back and do the toms, cymbals, ect ect. Its alot harder than finding an appropriate loop, but the end product is usually always better (for me anyway)
I found that setting the tempo to triplets pumps more life into the drum part.
Scoops
I use 2 differnt softwares for drums, Sampletank 2XL, and Battery 2. They both have thier pros and cons. Overall, Sampletank sounds "naturally" better while Battery is easier to tweak each drum.
Once I find the "sound" I'm looking for, I record the kick drum and snare to the piano scroll with a midi controller. Then I go back and do the toms, cymbals, ect ect. Its alot harder than finding an appropriate loop, but the end product is usually always better (for me anyway)
I found that setting the tempo to triplets pumps more life into the drum part.
Scoops
I have a really fast computer, some good mics, vintage musical instruments, and lots of fancy software. Just need some talent
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
I like Microtonic a lot at the moment. Usually I program the beats as MIDI and use it just as a synth, but I sometimes use the step sequencer to get a groove going quickly.. if I find I've programmed a beat I want to keep I will sometimes export a MIDI file of MT's output, and re-import for further work.
It can also be fun to run a pattern with the wrong number of steps against another more conventional one, to create long evolving patterns that don't repeat for ages..
If I'm using samples I often use the Tracktion sampler, but occasionally I load them into one of my home-made SE contraptions to get a bit more control.
I don't use loops that often, but when I do I slice them manually (see the beatslicing thread).
If I do use a loop, I will often match the groove of other MIDI parts by simply zooming in and lining up the notes with the sliced audio clips by eye.. like the slicing itself, its not as tedious as it sounds!
On the subject of grooves.. I use Cubase's groove quantise functions loads at work, and Tracktion's <cough> unconventional approach to this was one of the things that annoyed me most at first. Jules has at least got it working properly now, even if you can't extract the groove of an existing part to apply to another like you can in Cubase. I have almost come to regard this as a positive point though; it forces me to zoom in and move notes by small amounts to get the feel I want, rather than just applying a preset groove without really listening to it properly.
Crash cymbals etc. simply get dropped on a track these days.. why f*ck about with a sampler when you can just place them where you want them and set the volume?
A good trick for adding interest to a drum part: insert a Tracktion delay on the kick or snare (or a sub-group of both.. I LOVE Tracktion's sub-grouping!!) and choose an interesting beat division for the delay time. Now turn on automation, and have a bit of fun waggling the dry/wet mix parameter in time with the beat.. with a bit of practice you can produce interesting little fills and variations.. if you want to get more experimental, bung the delay in a rack and add some EQs and filters and stuff so the extra little hits you add have some tonal variety.
It can also be fun to run a pattern with the wrong number of steps against another more conventional one, to create long evolving patterns that don't repeat for ages..
If I'm using samples I often use the Tracktion sampler, but occasionally I load them into one of my home-made SE contraptions to get a bit more control.
I don't use loops that often, but when I do I slice them manually (see the beatslicing thread).
If I do use a loop, I will often match the groove of other MIDI parts by simply zooming in and lining up the notes with the sliced audio clips by eye.. like the slicing itself, its not as tedious as it sounds!
On the subject of grooves.. I use Cubase's groove quantise functions loads at work, and Tracktion's <cough> unconventional approach to this was one of the things that annoyed me most at first. Jules has at least got it working properly now, even if you can't extract the groove of an existing part to apply to another like you can in Cubase. I have almost come to regard this as a positive point though; it forces me to zoom in and move notes by small amounts to get the feel I want, rather than just applying a preset groove without really listening to it properly.
Crash cymbals etc. simply get dropped on a track these days.. why f*ck about with a sampler when you can just place them where you want them and set the volume?
A good trick for adding interest to a drum part: insert a Tracktion delay on the kick or snare (or a sub-group of both.. I LOVE Tracktion's sub-grouping!!) and choose an interesting beat division for the delay time. Now turn on automation, and have a bit of fun waggling the dry/wet mix parameter in time with the beat.. with a bit of practice you can produce interesting little fills and variations.. if you want to get more experimental, bung the delay in a rack and add some EQs and filters and stuff so the extra little hits you add have some tonal variety.
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- KVRist
- 62 posts since 21 Feb, 2005 from Dallas, TX
DFHS. I used to work drum tracks extensively in Reason with the M-Audio Vintage Drum Sounds (which are very nice) on the NN-XT and ReDrum, but no more.
DFHS is just incredible. I use a keyboard to do basic kit/snare, then layer on top of that, cut/paste, manually quantize, etc. At least that's what I've been doing since I started with Tracktion last week.
Takes forever, but with DFHS, it's absolutely (almost) real when you're done. You then import the separate .wav files back into Tracktion and mix it just like the results of a live session.
MT
DFHS is just incredible. I use a keyboard to do basic kit/snare, then layer on top of that, cut/paste, manually quantize, etc. At least that's what I've been doing since I started with Tracktion last week.
Takes forever, but with DFHS, it's absolutely (almost) real when you're done. You then import the separate .wav files back into Tracktion and mix it just like the results of a live session.
MT
G5 Dual 1.8 | LynxTWO A,B | UAD-1 | DP 4.5 | T2 | DFHS | Reason 3 | ReCycle 2 | website
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Does anyone have a link to those T sampler drum kits that were available? I forget where they were hosted. I just realized I have no VST drum sample plug for OS X. I have iDrum, but it's AU only. Too bad there isn't an AU to VST converter (or T supported AUs).
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRAF
- 6937 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Sometimes I just put the drum samples (wav files) I need in the Tracktion sampler. Snare, base, toms & hihat/cymbals on their own midi track so you can process them with different effects.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
usually a combination of ...
1 - chopped and / or mashed loops (both found and self-made)
2 - DR008 fed by MIDI from various sources (hand-programmed on the piano roll / stolen from loops or other audio using pHATmatik pro or beatcreator / using slicydrummer from within DR008 itself)
3 - single hits placed directly on the track or thrown into Ts sampler
slainte
rob
1 - chopped and / or mashed loops (both found and self-made)
2 - DR008 fed by MIDI from various sources (hand-programmed on the piano roll / stolen from loops or other audio using pHATmatik pro or beatcreator / using slicydrummer from within DR008 itself)
3 - single hits placed directly on the track or thrown into Ts sampler
slainte
rob-
- KVRer
- 17 posts since 5 Feb, 2005
I've used both the Beta Monkey loops and Drums on Demand loops (http://www.drumsondemand.com/); the DoD loops are much better IMO.
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 27 Sep, 2003 from Reston, VA.
I'm using Reason ReWired to Tracktion with the Reason Drumkit refill. Great, natural sounding drums and some good midi files to go with them.
I've been planning on trying out the Groove Monkey Midi files, but haven't gotten around to them yet. I've also tried "playing" the drum parts on my keyboard with some success.
I've been planning on trying out the Groove Monkey Midi files, but haven't gotten around to them yet. I've also tried "playing" the drum parts on my keyboard with some success.
Formally the mephit called DrakeBP
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Yeah, some of my best results programming my own drums have been with Reason. And the Groove Monkey midi files seem like a perfect match for Tracktion, too bad they aren't part of the bundle with T2.Mephit Blue wrote:I'm using Reason ReWired to Tracktion with the Reason Drumkit refill. Great, natural sounding drums and some good midi files to go with them.
I've been planning on trying out the Groove Monkey Midi files, but haven't gotten around to them yet. I've also tried "playing" the drum parts on my keyboard with some success.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363 - KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
I use either Beta Monkey loops (which fit my style well) or, now that I own Sonicbytes ERA, I put that in front of my DR-008 and go to town!
ERA + DR008 makes programming drum patterns a LOT easier.
ERA + DR008 makes programming drum patterns a LOT easier.
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- KVRist
- 31 posts since 23 Mar, 2004
i record live drums through a mackie onyx 1640 + firewire interface. i'm trying to force myself to learn the more 'recording/mixing engineer' side of things. i have a tama 5-piece rockstar kit and the shure 6-piece drum mic kit (2xPG81, 3xPG56s, 1xPG52 and two seperately-purchased SM57s and a KSM32)
when it comes to drum recording and processing techniques i'm a total newbie and have resorted to extensive trial-and-error to get a good sounding kit.
what i've been doing is mostly compression and eq'ing. verb and other effects aren't that big of a deal (yet) cause i haven't gotten past what i consider the 'basics'...
any tips would be great - or maybe i just need to get some proper schooling in mic techniques and such. unless someone has a great resource for this kind of training online???
when it comes to drum recording and processing techniques i'm a total newbie and have resorted to extensive trial-and-error to get a good sounding kit.
what i've been doing is mostly compression and eq'ing. verb and other effects aren't that big of a deal (yet) cause i haven't gotten past what i consider the 'basics'...
any tips would be great - or maybe i just need to get some proper schooling in mic techniques and such. unless someone has a great resource for this kind of training online???
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Nashville, TN
When I want a good head-start: Stylus, Drums on Demand, or Drumtrax (older collection of MIDI files).
When starting from scratch, I usually build up the track within Digital Performer (because it allows me to select strength/sensitivity for input quantizing...something Tracktion lacks and I've whinned about in other threads, and now this one
) using SampleTank or another VSTi.
Would love to see Tracktion get that 'borrow-groove-from-that-part-and-apply-it-to-this-part' feature somebody mentioned. Again, DP just incorporated this in 4.5, and it sounds cool, but (insert bumper-sticker idea)-
I'D RATHER BE USING TRACKTION!!!
When starting from scratch, I usually build up the track within Digital Performer (because it allows me to select strength/sensitivity for input quantizing...something Tracktion lacks and I've whinned about in other threads, and now this one
) using SampleTank or another VSTi.Would love to see Tracktion get that 'borrow-groove-from-that-part-and-apply-it-to-this-part' feature somebody mentioned. Again, DP just incorporated this in 4.5, and it sounds cool, but (insert bumper-sticker idea)-
I'D RATHER BE USING TRACKTION!!!