TRACKTION 2 FUTURE WISHLIST

[Lunch Money]

I don't find it alarming in the least. It means he's enthusiastic about the software, using it, and not just saying, "I'm going to switch to another app", RIGHT headquest?

[headquest]

I don't find it alarming in the least. It means he's enthusiastic about the software, using it, and not just saying, "I'm going to switch to another app", RIGHT headquest?

I should hope not after a week!!

I used Tracktion for well over a year before the bugs began to get me down. And now another year has passed, and with the issues in T2 being far worse (here) than those in T1 I do find that I'm now using other software (I basically don't have the choice at present).

But Tracktion's still here on my desktop just waiting to be used... as soon as a version is released that behaves itself on my laptop

[Frippertronix]

Tracktion doesn't even have the slightest hint of feeling orphaned for me. Au contraire.

But is there yet to be a single "post-Jules" update? Au contraire.

My main MIDI gripes are:

Delete notes often takes several attempts when selecting more than one note at a time (a few are deleted at a time).

Notes stick on always when stopping transport while ReWired to Giga 3.

Notes stick on always when trying to route MIDI through one track to another using a rack filter.

Sometimes when insterting clips, later clips are strangely moved from their original positions (space is added in between).

And lastly, probably the least consequential but somehow most annoying...the freaking MIDI editor constantly collapses itself spontaneously after clip edits (particularly deletions] are made.

[Lunch Money]

Tracktion doesn't even have the slightest hint of feeling orphaned for me. Au contraire.

But is there yet to be a single "post-Jules" update? Au contraire.

Ah, if you only knew.

As for the MIDI gripes, they sound legitimate. I haven't run into those problems, but I'm a 'delete 1 note at a time using the eraser' kind of guy.

Greg

[Frippertronix]

Tracktion doesn't even have the slightest hint of feeling orphaned for me. Au contraire.

But is there yet to be a single "post-Jules" update? Au contraire.

Ah, if you only knew.

As for the MIDI gripes, they sound legitimate. I haven't run into those problems, but I'm a 'delete 1 note at a time using the eraser' kind of guy.

Greg

I also play guitar and record audio, but sequencing is extremely important to me and I use it constantly. I wish MIDI was not the "stepchild" of T2 and would be given more attention.

Tracktion should grow and become more like many of its competitors in features and reliability, IMO. It is now a major player, not so much an "alternative" host any more.

[Lunch Money]

Tracktion should grow and become more like many of its competitors in features and reliability, IMO. It is now a major player, not so much an "alternative" host any more.

I disagree, still, though I hope you know that it's in a kind-hearted and friendly way, and not a contrarian way. Nobody here can possibly convince me that Tracktion's unreliable, because their experiences are not my own. Since I can't remember EVER having had a non-plugin related crash or freeze, it has proven to be exceedingly reliable.

My only real 'performance' issue was with a GUI slowdown issue that may have been resolved by the coders, or may have been resolved by my buying a new video card... I'll never know for sure... but I do know that it's resolved.

I am strongly opposed to any feature-by-feature comparison because that never speaks to a software's strengths, but only a list. It matters to ME not one wee little bit that Nuendo is able to display video frames as reference points, or is able to mix in 5.1 surround. Powerful features? I guess... for that kind of professional... but if I'm not using it, it's just bloat and expense (the cost of development is rolled into the cost of the product).

You seem to have legitimate concerns, and you've itemized them. I can't relate to them, so I won't refute them, and wouldn't dare without trying for myself anyhow. But the world is full of gullible people, or at least people that aren't critical thinkers. Critical thinking is becoming almost as lost an art as handwriting. People are learning specialized skills but don't equip themselves (or aren't equipped by the educational systems of the world) to evaluate things for themselves.

So, that's why I often argue when someone makes a claim like "Tracktion is unreliable." OK, you've found it to be unreliable when doing very specific tasks. Not the same thing. But as I said in the opening paragraph, my experience has been that the stability, reliability, and developer responsiveness has been excellent, dating right back to 1.5 (I've been saying 1.4, but the more I think, the more I wonder if it was 1.5, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt).

Sorry it hasn't worked for your methodologies, but it's very reliable for a great number of people... but those people aren't on this forum looking for technical support, they're at home making music, oblivious to the fact that a place like KvR even exists.

As for features, why play follow the leader? Pro Tools always had inline MIDI, from what I gather, but I can't help but wonder if Cubase picked it up after seeing it in action in Tracktion...? It's not time to follow the leader, but to have the leaders follow Tracktion. Forward ho!

Greg

[Frippertronix]

Yea, I guess my dumb luck that my area of focus may be one of the only weak areas. One of the problems with s/w platforms of any kind, since they try to do so many things, some of those things don't work well and it may take a long time to fix since there are scattered priorities due to complexity of the app., not to mention all its possible interactions.

The GS3 problem involves three different pieces of s/w (GS, T2, and ReWire), so these kinds of issues may never get resolved due to complex interactions. But simple things like the MIDI editor constantly collapsing---they gotta get off their duff and fix that one...

I still maintain that for sequencing, while featuring a well thought out interface that is direct and easy to use and follows RMS's genius for integrating functions on one page (which is why I wll continue to use it), T2 is not as good as some of the others in terms of features power and reliability (from what I've experienced). I don't think it's necessarily an issue of anybody following anybody else's lead (or style), more an issue of improving an aspect of the platform that has some nagging issues and a few limitations here and there that could be improved.

[Lunch Money]

Sure, there are clearly areas for improvement.

I have some pet FRs of my own that I personally consider fairly substantial. Actually, I'm continually amazed when I discovere what to me is a big issue and nobody even GETS it, never mind standing behind me and supporting it.

I say the above with complete sincerity... I really DO consider my discoveries substantial. Don't take the word "pet" as a roundabout and sideways insult-- in fact, yours don't seem 'pet' at all, but genuine issues that would affect any number of people.

Greg

[headquest]

Ah, if you only knew.

Yes - if only we did. That's the point of this thread Greg. As a beta tester you do know. And you are no doubt using a version of Tracktion in which most of the problems the rest of us are having are now fixed. But the rest of us DON'T know. We are in the dark. And we are experiencing problems with T2.

You say that the GUI slowdown problem is now fixed for you, either because of improvements in T2 or because you changed your graphics card. Well let's explore that for a moment...

Firstly, if the beta version you are running does not cause GUI slowdown, why do the rest of us have to keep using a version where (for at least some of us) this is a significant issue? I know from your previous posts that the problem you had with this is not as severe as the one I am having. So allow me to explain it... most times I try to record audio in T2 the GUI slowdown kicks in. It causes audio dropouts, clicks and jumps. When I tried to record the twelve "Times Tables" songs for a school earlier this year, I had to re-record all the parts several times to get takes without this problem. As a matter of choice it is surely not hard to understand that I would for the time being choose to record audio in alternative software pending a bug-fix for this issue?

Secondly, if Tracktion does not behave itself with particular graphics cards - in my case, the ATI Radeon 9000, which is one of the three top-selling graphics cards released this decade!! - then the minimum system requirements advertised for T2 should make this clear, so that people who own incompatible graphics cards know in advance that they need to use something else.

Well now, here's another one. Of those 12 tracks I recorded, 8 of them remain fine. But the other four inexplicably turn off my audio interface when I open the edits in Tracktion. It's simply bizaare! And because my interface is a firewire one, I have to reboot my whole system to switch it back on! If I then try again to open the offending edits, the same happens. This means that the work I did on those four tracks is basically lost! (Thankfully the raw audio files are fine when imported into Audition - phew).

Earlier in the thread I wrote:

I'm still waiting for feature 6, along with Frippertronix

to which you responded:

It means he's enthusiastic about the software, using it, and not just saying, "I'm going to switch to another app", RIGHT headquest?

...which was kinda a little rude. Did you not notice that I put in a "sad" smiley, not an "angry" one or a "hihi". The "sad" smiley is there precisely because I have not abandoned Tracktion... I still consider myself on board. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother posting here!

Although I use and like Ableton Live, I have repeatedly pointed out that some things are better in Tracktion. For example, I regularly praise and defend the Final Mix plug on this forum. I think it's fabulous, and Live doesn't have anything like it! The same goes for looped audio recording, Racks, etc...

But until an update fixes the problems I have, T2 sits dormant, waiting for a cure so I can use it. I also experienced all the same MIDI issues that Fripper mentions, by the way, which is why I agreed with his post.

You have the bugfix. We don't. We don't even know if or when we will get it. So please try to show a little more understanding/patience Greg. Thank you!

[Lunch Money]

Yes - if only we did. That's the point of this thread Greg. As a beta tester you do know. And you are no doubt using a version of Tracktion in which most of the problems the rest of us are having are now fixed. But the rest of us DON'T know. We are in the dark. And we are experiencing problems with T2.

I never discuss bugfixes that I'm enjoying and the users of 2.0.1.3 don't. I agree that it would be rude, so I don't talk about them. Read below:

You say that the GUI slowdown problem is now fixed for you, either because of improvements in T2 or because you changed your graphics card. Well let's explore that for a moment...

Firstly, if the beta version you are running does not cause GUI slowdown, why do the rest of us have to keep using a version where (for at least some of us) this is a significant issue?

My GUI slowdowns disappeared with the release of 2.0.1.3.

I know from your previous posts that the problem you had with this is not as severe as the one I am having. So allow me to explain it... most times I try to record audio in T2 the GUI slowdown kicks in. It causes audio dropouts, clicks and jumps. When I tried to record the twelve "Times Tables" songs for a school earlier this year, I had to re-record all the parts several times to get takes without this problem. As a matter of choice it is surely not hard to understand that I would for the time being choose to record audio in alternative software pending a bug-fix for this issue?

Sure. If you're still having that problem, whether it's Tracktion or your setup, you'd pretty much HAVE to.

Secondly, if Tracktion does not behave itself with particular graphics cards - in my case, the ATI Radeon 9000, which is one of the three top-selling graphics cards released this decade!! - then the minimum system requirements advertised for T2 should make this clear, so that people who own incompatible graphics cards know in advance that they need to use something else.

Ironically, I made the switch from a Matrox G550, which many consider to be one of the most stable dual-head cards ever created, to a Radeon9000, which I was loathe to do because I do not trust Radeon cards, and I find them unreliable. There's 2 levels of irony there.

Well now, here's another one. Of those 12 tracks I recorded, 8 of them remain fine. But the other four inexplicably turn off my audio interface when I open the edits in Tracktion. It's simply bizaare! And because my interface is a firewire one, I have to reboot my whole system to switch it back on! If I then try again to open the offending edits, the same happens. This means that the work I did on those four tracks is basically lost! (Thankfully the raw audio files are fine when imported into Audition - phew).

I agree, it IS bizarre. But until you can reproduce it and have other people reproduce it, it's irresponsible to simply call it a "bug" and rag on Mackie about it. Exactly BECAUSE of its bizarre nature, it strikes me as a system (ie. drivers, conflicts, and such things, not your selection of components)- or user- specific error.

The problem I have is with people (not even YOU in particular, because you ARE very level-headed as a dude) calling "bug" when a bug hasn't been identified. They project their own problem into the forum and make it seem to newbies or people who aren't critical thinkers that Tracktion is this bug-ridden bugfest, when there are many many of us with opposite experiences. I like to try to keep the balance a bit because it's not like I'm going to write a thread called, "Tracktion: Holy Stability!!!" and have much to say in it. People reporting problems is normal for a user forum, and one of the 2 main purposes (the other being merely to socialize and share info!); however, that doesn't mean that when I offer a contradictory viewpoint (ie. that Tracktion IS stable, or that some 'bugs' aren't really bugs at all) that I'm calling anyone's reports illegitimate. Rather, I'm just trying to get people to consider the big picture.

Earlier in the thread I wrote:

I'm still waiting for feature 6, along with Frippertronix

to which you responded:

It means he's enthusiastic about the software, using it, and not just saying, "I'm going to switch to another app", RIGHT headquest?

...which was kinda a little rude. Did you not notice that I put in a "sad" smiley, not an "angry" one or a "hihi". The "sad" smiley is there precisely because I have not abandoned Tracktion... I still consider myself on board. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother posting here!

No, I didn't notice that you put a "sad" smiley. I must have thought it was a or a , because it just seemed to me that we had gotten to know and understand each others' perspectives enough that you would have known I was joking. I'll be more sensitive in the future.

But until an update fixes the problems I have, T2 sits dormant, waiting for a cure so I can use it. I also experienced all the same MIDI issues that Fripper mentions, by the way, which is why I agreed with his post.

And if an update DOESN'T fix the problems? If an update NEVER fixes the problems? I have to admit, I had more or less forgotten what your specific issues were, and now that I've seen this post, I can't help but wonder (in a tech support way, not an accusatory way) if your system and individual edits (the ones with problems) need another look at. The problems reported simply aren't common or consistently reproducible, so it's a bit tricky to call them bugs. I'm not ruling out the possibility, but I hope that you're open to trouble-shooting from all angles and not just waiting for an update.

You have the bugfix. We don't. We don't even know if or when we will get it. So please try to show a little more understanding/patience Greg. Thank you!

I do understand. I am patient. I patiently explain my perspective over and over again, and only once that I can remember have I ever gotten 'angry' about doing so. I mean, most days I don't mind being the opposite perspective... and in the meantime, I hope you can also understand why I take that role. It's not to argue for the sake of argument (I much prefer a discussion with actual points on either side, like this one), it's not to make people feel bad, and it's never to rub anything in. Heck, I'm a supporter of making a publicly viewable database of known bugs.

That's all. Hope T2 starts working for you again at some point in time.

Greg

[sinkmusic]

my request for T2 : easy loop & stretch tools ! the ability to paint audio jut like in ACID with perfectly synced samples...
Such a feature would make me go for T2, instead of using T1,6, and keeping Acid on hand....

[rockstar_not]

my request for T2 : easy loop & stretch tools ! the ability to paint audio jut like in ACID with perfectly synced samples...
Such a feature would make me go for T2, instead of using T1,6, and keeping Acid on hand....

Number 1 FR in my book.

Well stated, thanks for your support.

-Scott

[Lunch Money]

I can't figure out what my #1 is anymore, but Acid-like loop tools are waaaaaay up there for me, too. Not even so much the 'painting' part, though (Tracktion can paint already, and I mix and match so many different clips that it's not strictly necessary anyhow) but just the plain ol' ability to have my Acidized beats match tempo.

Greg

[rockstar_not]

I can't figure out what my #1 is anymore, but Acid-like loop tools are waaaaaay up there for me, too. Not even so much the 'painting' part, though (Tracktion can paint already, and I mix and match so many different clips that it's not strictly necessary anyhow) but just the plain ol' ability to have my Acidized beats match tempo.

Greg

it's definitely my #1 FR. After the whole exercise that you so well laid out on how to slice, dump to sampler, etc. for just one loop - I'm still convinced that I can't bear doing that for multiple songs at once. I need to use my drum loop discs in an easy way - preferably in one app, my favorite, Tracktion.

-Scott

[sinkmusic]

yes, lunchmoney & rockstar, we met on the tracktion loop forum, and this is true that even if many tools/slicers can be added to tracktion, ,having one single host doing it all is allways a huge nice thing.

Tracktion has so many nice features, i don't believe time stretching is sooooooo uneasy to make. I can not just make my track a bit faster or to slow it down as i can with acid or Live...