m3

[MuTools]

Will it have multi core support from the start?

Not yet in 3.0.

But R&D have already been done in this field. Lets say we're half way.

[MuTools]

Tomorrow, MU.LAB 3.0 will be distributed to a limited test group

[pljones]

Lets say we're half way.

So that's one and a bit core...?

[liquidsound]

Tomorrow, MU.LAB 3.0 will be distributed to a limited test group

The "2010" MUTOOLS Prophecy is happening!

[MuTools]

A very first MU.LAB 3 test preview has been distributed to a limited group of testers.

[paulhart]

Jo, Congratulations on the Beta Release. Please indicate if you want feedback in a dedicated thread, or how you want it organized, if this matters to you.
Looks clean, appears well organized initially, I will explore some of the new aspects, just thought to chronicle some of the first "glitches" as I encounter them... Don't know, is this "a feature" or "a bug" category.

Opened the demo session, double-clicked on the Instrument to have it's parameter window open up, but the default action is to not display the instrument currently chosen. If I click in the Window, the PopUp list is displayed, and if I then choose an instrument, it will be displayed, but initially no instrument is displayed, which is puzzling. Also the display field is not wide enough for some of the names of the instruments.
Interestingly, after adding some VST Plugins, each of these open with the default instrument displayed, but the native ones to Mu.Lab don't???

I like the Zooming Out with the Middle Mouse Button, but was surprised when I tried the inverse choice of Zooming In and it did not work. When trying to scroll in the VstPlugins Window, again, the Mouse Scroll only works in one direction, regardless of which way I move the Scroll Wheel.

So far, stable and responsive. I will push it as time allows, Thank You.
Paul

[bpblog]

first few bug reports. i will come back later with more when we get instructions on where to post 'em.

create new sequence >> right-click sequence >> delete sequence >> choose yes >> NOTHING HAPPENS >> right-click sequence >> now double-click sequence >> CRASH!

create new sequence >> open sequence >> set part start >> remove the sequence from the composer (not the session) >> THE SEQUENCE CAN NOT BE REMOVED BY USING REMOVE UNUSEDS IN THE SEQUENCE MANAGER

[pquenin]

Here some bugs of M3, here on my PC under Windows XP :
- no more tools on the middle mouse button, nore with the T key,
- I cant create a sequence in the composition window (perhaps because I cant have the "pen" tool to draw it),
- the key shortcut system is certainly great but when I add new shorcuts, it does not work,
- I cant fint "pull out of rack" anymore,
- I select all events in an automation lane and then suppr : nothing happen..

What is cool in this version :
- the new patch browser,
- the zoom ans scroll is better,
- the key shortcut system (when it will work).

What I don't like :
- the default skin is still very dark : after 10mn working in this obscurity, I want to kill myself and all my family...

I also had some crashes, but I have to find a way to reproduce them.

I have seen the sub-track thing : is it just a track with a different look, or have it something else special ?

I have to go thru the long list of changes now, see you soon...

[bpblog]

- no more tools on the middle mouse button, nore with the T key,
- I cant create a sequence in the composition window (perhaps because I cant have the "pen" tool to draw it)

from what i've figured, it's supposed to work this way. no more pen tool, sequences and notes are added using a double click now. at first i was like , but after a while i'm actually begining to like this.

- the default skin is still very dark : after 10mn working in this obscurity, I want to kill myself and all my family...

yeah , m3 certainly deserves a shiny new skin.

anyway, here's another small observation:
when turning processess on/off, there's no instant indication in the gui.

and what i miss the most so far in m3 is being able to select individual targets for sequences, independent of a track the sequence is placed on. is this just the current state of things, or will it be permanently so?

the stuff i love so far are automation lines snapping to grid, auto color system (even though it should be refined), the improved zoom in/out, fixed menus too. and the whole thing somehow feels more robust in a good way.

[MuTools]

Please indicate if you want feedback in a dedicated thread, or how you want it organized, if this matters to you.

New topic created: "M3 Tests".

Opened the demo session, double-clicked on the Instrument to have it's parameter window open up, but the default action is to not display the instrument currently chosen. If I click in the Window, the PopUp list is displayed, and if I then choose an instrument, it will be displayed, but initially no instrument is displayed, which is puzzling.

The interactions in the track header have slightly changed.

Click the target plugin icon = Focus target plugin
Doubleclick the target plugin icon = Edit target plugin
Click target plugin name = Choose target plugin

Doesn't that work fine?

Would it be better to also do:

Doubleclick target plugin name = Edit target plugin

Also the display field is not wide enough for some of the names of the instruments.
Interestingly, after adding some VST Plugins, each of these open with the default instrument displayed, but the native ones to Mu.Lab don't???

Not sure what you mean here. I'm a bit confused by what you mean with "instrument". Could you please elaborate.

I like the Zooming Out with the Middle Mouse Button, but was surprised when I tried the inverse choice of Zooming In and it did not work.

Strange!

Note that there is a limit to how much you can zoom in/out.
Maybe you were trying to zoom out when already fully zoomed out?
Maybe i'm missing something?
Zooming in/out with the mouse wheel works fine here.

When trying to scroll in the VstPlugins Window, again, the Mouse Scroll only works in one direction, regardless of which way I move the Scroll Wheel.

Very strange. Do others also have this issue?

[MuTools]

create new sequence >> right-click sequence >> delete sequence >> choose yes >> NOTHING HAPPENS >> right-click sequence >> now double-click sequence >> CRASH!

Indeed when deleting the sequence, the display isn't immediately refreshed.

But i can't make it crash. What's the step by step to crash it?

create new sequence >> open sequence >> set part start >> remove the sequence from the composer (not the session) >> THE SEQUENCE CAN NOT BE REMOVED BY USING REMOVE UNUSEDS IN THE SEQUENCE MANAGER

Indeed. Will research it. Thanks!

[MuTools]

no more tools on the middle mouse button, nore with the T key

No more tool switching in M3

Insert part/note = Doubleclick + drag the part/note
Delete part/note = [Alt] + click front/end of part/note
Move part/note = Click + drag
Copy part/note = [Ctrl] + click + drag
Change part/note length = Click + drag the end

I cant create a sequence in the composition window (perhaps because I cant have the "pen" tool to draw it),

Doubleclick to draw a new part/note.

Once you know it works very fine imho.

There is only 1 disadvantage of this: A newbie user doesn't know he/she has to doubleclick to draw a new part/note. Maybe this can be solved by a tooltip message when there are no parts in a composition. That's just an idea. Other ideas welcome too!

the key shortcut system is certainly great but when I add new shorcuts, it does not work,

What did you do and what did not work?

I cant fint "pull out of rack" anymore

In M3, the way racks work internally/technically has changed.

In one of the next test versions there will also be Cut-Copy-Paste functions for pluins and so you can use these functions to move plugs from inside a rack to the MPA.

I select all events in an automation lane and then suppr : nothing happen..

Strange it works fine here.

Maybe the keyboard focus was not on the Event Graph Editor.

You can set the keyboard focus to a GUI component by clicking the component or by hovering the component.

the default skin is still very dark : after 10mn working in this obscurity, I want to kill myself and all my family...

I take this opportunity to give this message to the MU.LAB skin devs: As soon as M3 proves reasonable stable, i'll also concentrate on supporting to upgrade the MU.LAB skins from M2 to M3. Anyway, feel free to contact me already if you want, as some of you already did.

I have seen the sub-track thing : is it just a track with a different look, or have it something else special?

Subtracks are a feature that can help in better organizing a composition.

[MuTools]

when turning processess on/off, there's no instant indication in the gui.

You mean when [Alt] + clicking a rack slot?

and what i miss the most so far in m3 is being able to select individual targets for sequences, independent of a track the sequence is placed on. is this just the current state of things, or will it be permanently so?

It's all about a conceptual aspect:

Personally i've always been supporter of having part based targets.

But 99% of the music apps work track based. Also musical scores are 'track based' in fact. So i must admit it seems to be the natural/intuitive way of working for most musicians.

Removing the part based targets simplifies the whole MU.LAB concept. While it does not really limit your musical possibilities.

So that's why i reasoned the gain is much greater than the loss.

But please let me know your opinions! It's also one of the reasons why the M3 test versions are distributed: communicating about certain conceptual changes.

auto color system (even though it should be refined)

How so?

[Dionysos]

But 99% of the music apps work track based. Also musical scores are 'track based' in fact. So i must admit it seems to be the natural/intuitive way of working for most musicians.

Removing the part based targets simplifies the whole MU.LAB concept. While it does not really limit your musical possibilities.

So that's why i reasoned the gain is much greater than the loss.

I'm not a customer and usually I'm just lurking around here, watching Mu.lab grow up , but now I think I should say something: The part based targets were the thing that mostly kept me interested in Mu.lab and made it stand out from the crowd of sequencers.

If you're coming from a host like FL Studio for example, you'll miss the freedom of placing clips whereever you like, using tracks just as a means of organizing instruments of the same musical purpose. IMO tracks should not be restricting, for me track-based sequencing is a thing from the past.


I know where you're coming from with this change, but since Mu.lab is (not exclusively, but also) aimed at beginners, I think what SEEMS to be the most natural thing actually isn't.

For example, I started making music with a Playstation (!) software called "MUSIC 2000" ("MTV Music Generator" in the US) where the target instrument was set per note! (It's something I still really miss from all the big sequencers - there's nothing that feels more natural/intuitive than placing things wherever you want.)

You already said that track-based composition does not limit musical possibilities, which is true, but clip/note-based targets provide for more musical freedom, in other words, it lets the user work more the way he wants to, as opposed to the way the software developer wants him to work.

Just something to think about, still looking forward to trying Mu.lab 3 when it's finished.

[pljones]

I'm hoping we can regain the per event targeting that was lost along the way, too... It has been useful on rare occasions. Certainly I've used per-part targeting. I really don't like the idea of track targeting as the only way of working. (Yes, people coming from other sequencers may expect to work with tracks: don't prevent them. However, people coming in with no chains around their thinking might enjoy the freedom to work in other ways! )

Say I have a GM module connected on my MIDI out. For the first 16 bars, I want to play piano on track one. Then I want to switch to organ. Hmm. Start a new part, put patch changes in the right places and away I go. All on the one track.

Say I have a piano VST and an organ VST. Now you're saying I need two tracks. I can't just change the targeted player - which is what a patch change message in MIDI is, essentially.

To me it doesn't make sense.

(Actually, I guess I could use a MUX, a channel splitter and target different MIDI channels from the two parts but it's not exactly intuitive...)