Vangurd V2 - whats new

[Urs]

attempt to do true through-zero modulation so it sounded exactly like a DX- synthesizer, not your average xmod.

Hmmm, afaik the raved about through-zero modulation refers to *frequency*, not to phase and thus has nothing in common with dx synths. Only few analogue oscillators are capable of negative frequency (i.e. play backwards on negative CV) and to my best knowledge maybe 3 or 4 digital ones.

[aciddose]

it refers to the ability to accept a negative delta value, or "frequency" yes. it just means that you have to be able to go from 1 -> 0, as well as 0 -> 1 and process all the points in your waveform either way.

the problem is that if the waveforms are constructed using integration, dc offsets build up from imperfections in the sinc impulses (due to limited oversample, interpolation, etc) and you can get run-away offsets.

in order to build triangle waves you _must_ integrate the impulses. otherwise you have to use some complex system of pre-integrated impulses overlayed on a phase-defined waveform.

trying to tie the two systems together and eliminate the dc offsets is ridiculously complex.

the solution is to use hard integration to generate the shapes, apply blep on top (in place of blit underneath) and create your triangle wave by integrating _after_ the strict pulse wave has been generated. that still leads to dc offsets, but they can't build up,

in order to duplicate phase modulation, think of this:

you're taking

waveform[index + modulation]

you could also do this:

index += delta + modulation

but what happens when the modulation is greater than the forward delta? in that case you actually get a negative sum

so you'd normally handle:

index += delta + modulation;

if (index > phase) blahblah();

however, you must also handle:

else if (index < negphase) blahblaa();

the specifics of which i leave to the implementer.

the easiest way to demonstrate the effect is to use a simple sine oscillator.

note that any integrated sine is a phase-shifted sine

therefore:

index += delta + modulation

is the same as

waveform[index + phaseshift(modulation)]

meaning it's _exactly_ the same result in limited carrier/modulator situations as phase modulation with a sine modulator. you can also take the difference waveforms for other shapes and use those: differencing(integration(n)) == n.

xhip's oscillators support this, and the oscillators i wrote for refx supported it - they also had the issues with dc however.

a useful thing to know when you're generating ramps (triangles) via integration is that you need not use a strict linear integrator. a lossy integrator can be used. you can increase it's linearity by decreasing it's fraction while increasing the input delta's amplitude.

for example, 10x linearization:

n += (i*10 - n) * fraction/10

since the slope increases in linearity near the origin, the closer we "zoom" to the origin, the more linear the result - however it is still fundementally a leaky integrator meaning dc offsets are allowed to leak off and can only build to a limited amount.

[Kriminal]

so, code aside no-one has any idea what Vangaurd V2 has to offer at this moment in time....

no worries, i'll wait for the official release and try it (assuming it has a dongle free demo of course)

[pernophus]

with all due respect I do not understand why people say a synth is dated? This especially happens with software synths.

+1 Lots of ppl want new toys = new inspiration. But inspiration doesn't come from gear. New functions is OK but the level of the older synth doesn't go backwards.

[Happy Frog]

I could not agree more. As I start to really focuses on producing rather then just enjoying the nature and sound of the VST (if that makes sense). I have come to really enjoy the "less" complex looking if you will VST's. Alpha is really getting a lot of use these days. Especial now that I have gone from FL Studio 5 to 9 this week, I can apply some effects and love it more. Also, on the beach today listen to trance sets, I have come to realize how much I appreciate ZebraCM and Urs for this, plus the sound sets people have generously done for this. I know a lot of my work will be done with this VST. I am not very good at sound design, with ZebraCM I tweak the filters and I am amazed at how brilliant it sounds. It is one mageware VST worthy of commercial sound sets in my opinion.

[LeVzi]

Whats new with the synth aside, it will have to be something spectacular or a "must have" something in it, before i'll even look at it, thankfully you get good feedback on stuff here at KVR, but seeing recent "events" regarding refx, makes me want to avoid them as a company completely.

[Igro]

so, code aside no-one has any idea what Vangaurd V2 has to offer at this moment in time....

no worries, i'll wait for the official release and try it (assuming it has a dongle free demo of course)

You better tell us about synapse new synth. Any ETA?

[Kriminal]

so, code aside no-one has any idea what Vangaurd V2 has to offer at this moment in time....

no worries, i'll wait for the official release and try it (assuming it has a dongle free demo of course)

You better tell us about synapse new synth. Any ETA?

no idea, nothing to do with me.

[Urs]

...

Nevermind. I won't buy a Zeroscillator just to prove a point.

[ATS]

with all due respect I do not understand why people say a synth is dated? This especially happens with software synths.

well, from my point of view, both (junox and vangaurd) sound like old synths anyway (naturally of course they would, they are va emulations to a certain degree) so they sound 'dated'

Then why did you say "now"? That implies that they didn't used to be no?

[Brittlestem]

with all due respect I do not understand why people say a synth is dated? This especially happens with software synths.

well, from my point of view, both (junox and vangaurd) sound like old synths anyway (naturally of course they would, they are va emulations to a certain degree) so they sound 'dated'

Then why did you say "now"? That implies that they didn't used to be no?

Dated, to me, is a way of saying that the code used has more aliasing, is less accurately modelling the desired analog synth etc etc or is less CPU efficient.
In the same way that, for some, older hardware is far superior to computer based VSTi.

Albino, for instance, is a classic but has terrible aliasing in the higher register. In time, I'm sure, that "sound" will become desiable but, atm, coupled with it's higher than average CPU use, if I want a virus-type synth I'd rather use something of higher quality - which usually means newer.

[Kriminal]

with all due respect I do not understand why people say a synth is dated? This especially happens with software synths.

well, from my point of view, both (junox and vangaurd) sound like old synths anyway (naturally of course they would, they are va emulations to a certain degree) so they sound 'dated'

Then why did you say "now"? That implies that they didn't used to be no?

because then (6 or 8 years ago?) they were new to the scene, fresh sounds on the software market, even tho the sounds themselves were not exactly new...pretty much any softsynth can make those sounds now..difficult to explain i guess...most old hardware synths sound 'dated'...sample based or not...im not saying they sound bad (some do tho, very) but when you hear them they take you back to a certain time frame...

i dont think we will get much reliable info on this subject anyway, given the nature of the recent reFX related posts, so i'll happily wait for the real deal to surface.

[ATS]

with all due respect I do not understand why people say a synth is dated? This especially happens with software synths.

well, from my point of view, both (junox and vangaurd) sound like old synths anyway (naturally of course they would, they are va emulations to a certain degree) so they sound 'dated'

Then why did you say "now"? That implies that they didn't used to be no?

because then (6 or 8 years ago?) they were new to the scene, fresh sounds on the software market, even tho the sounds themselves were not exactly new...pretty much any softsynth can make those sounds now..difficult to explain i guess...most old hardware synths sound 'dated'...sample based or not...im not saying they sound bad (some do tho, very) but when you hear them they take you back to a certain time frame...

i dont think we will get much reliable info on this subject anyway, given the nature of the recent reFX related posts, so i'll happily wait for the real deal to surface.

yeah not trying to knock you or anything, just wondering what the thinking is behind that statement. Something I have been thinking about lately before you even posted.

[rlahalla]

...

Nevermind. I won't buy a Zeroscillator just to prove a point.

Oh come on Urs, it's only a thousand bucks or so

[Teksonik]

i wasnt a big fan of the original, i prefered the junox2 at the time (and got vanguard lite free as part of the deal as i recall), but both are quite dated now, tho good for what they were...so, whats coming in v2?

You know what's coming next Dave and it ain't Vanguard 2 before it

Rob

So is there even a screenshot yet? 4 months after it's announced release date?