reFX Vanguard 2?

[DrGonzo]

Who codes this? I read Markus from Tone2 wrote the audio engine for version 1.

A sloth maybe

[Gosh]

just had a quick look at gearslutz. there someone quoted from a recent mail from refx that the 64bit version of vanguard is on hold and that it`s not clear if it will ever be developed further. so this official refx mail in the beginning of 2014 that vanguard 2 is on the way was just a big (excuse the german word) verarschung.

[dermichl]

just had a quick look at gearslutz. there someone quoted from a recent mail from refx that the 64bit version of vanguard is on hold and that it`s not clear if it will ever be developed further. so this official refx mail in the beginning of 2014 that vanguard 2 is on the way was just a big (excuse the german word) verarschung.

what else did you expect from a bunch of liars and thieves?!?

[MFXxx]

just had a quick look at gearslutz. there someone quoted from a recent mail from refx that the 64bit version of vanguard is on hold and that it`s not clear if it will ever be developed further. so this official refx mail in the beginning of 2014 that vanguard 2 is on the way was just a big (excuse the german word) verarschung.

While it works in Cubase with jBridge I'm not really bothered regarding Vanguard 64bit. As far as version 2 goes, I was under a distinct impression from their email it was purely a 64bit version with nothing more. I would imagine with the competition and evolution of competing products that have transpired since Vanguard was released (10 years+). Along with the launch of Nexus, the expansion packs and samples packs I'd imagine are their bread and butter. Why invest time in something that is not likely to increase revenue. User base cannot be that vast nowadays.

[sacer]

Same will happen to Nexus, if they have something new or M. Schleis stops working on it, thats why i will not buy nexus. If my old products (vanguard, sid, plastic) don't get any update, i'll not buy something new from this company.
Steinberg also can't update old products from wizo, but they don't sell it. Refx sells old tone2 stuff without any further development. Refx are my last synths together with op-x-pro-II on 32 bit, but plastics does't work correct with jbridge, parameter changes aren't smooth. So I don't expect any surprise from refx

[Jesus C]

Update: All ReFX Products are abandonware now, they are discontinued and no longer available, except for Nexus... and Vanguard 2 joins next to Half Life 3 to the Hall of Fame of Vaporware

[mhog]

Update: All ReFX Products are abandonware now, they are discontinued and no longer available, except for Nexus... and Vanguard 2 joins next to Half Life 3 to the Hall of Fame of Vaporware

Vanguard is still there, actually...
https://refx.com/products/vanguard/summary/

[Jesus C]

as well as Beast, Claw, QuadraSID, PlasticZ, Trasher2 and suddenly they dissapeared

[aciddose]

The reason is that Mike (= refx) didn't fully write these on his own. They all incorporate large amounts of third party code. In some cases code Markus wrote, in some cases code that was collected from elsewhere (BSD or otherwise.) (clarification: it is common for projects to include libraries like zlib, libpng and so on. "Collected from elsewhere" does not imply any portion of the core of the plugins was not written by Mike himself, and in fact to my knowledge the majority of the core code was written or heavily edited/optimized by him.)

He doesn't even understand how they work in many cases making it impossible to replace or redo. It is completely impractical for him to develop these originals further because of many reasons but the most important is that in some cases he simply has no right to do so, the code doesn't belong to him. (clarification: "He doesn't even understand how they work", I'm referring to libraries. In large projects incorporating significant libraries such as zlib or freetype it is unusual for the programmers to modify those libraries. In fact it is a great risk to do so, as any modification may make the libraries incompatible with future updates by the members of the maintenance teams directly involved in those libraries. This is quite common in larger projects as it is impractical to "reinvent the wheel". Sometimes a library the project depends upon may not have support for x64, for example, or may not be available in a version compatible on a particular OS. In these cases it is impractical for those involved in the project to move the project to a new platform or otherwise because they depend upon the maintainers of the libraries which are needed to do so.)

One thing he told me about my code (included some parts in nexus 2 + the complete original "vanguard 2" was my code) was "I don't understand your code, therefore I don't trust it. I'll simply rewrite it all from scratch in C."

(Also "I'll completely write Vanguard 2 from scratch and it will be finished in approximately six months." He said this In May 2010. I had my doubts to say the least At this point he had never really looked at the code for Vanguard 2 and didn't really understand how huge and complex it was.)

In addition to that look on the business side of things. Refx last I was aware depends almost entirely upon license from Manuel Schleis (aka vengeance) in order to remain profitable. (correction: I recall Mike explaining that it was entirely possible for him to make a fair living off Vanguard alone for instance, although he insisted "you have no idea" when I suggested that the profit sharing percentages for Nexus seemed slanted. I took this to mean that Manuel's contribution was much larger than I understood and very important to the company.) Due to this, any direction taken must agree with Manuel Schleis, and without being able to extract the same profit as that generated by sales of his sample sets it is unlikely to do so.

Nexus being essentially complicated copy-protection for sample sets was originally created after Mike was commissioned by Manuel Schleis to build a proprietary plugin and sample format to act as copy-protection for his samples. (correction: based upon what I recall being told by Mike. My memory may be entirely incorrect, I may have misheard or misinterpreted.)

Mike described to me that the original specifications were wholly aimed at simple sample playback and copy-protection and that the additional synthesizer features of nexus were Mike's initiative, not those of Manuel Schleis. (correction: again, based entirely upon my own memory and interpretation of what I recall being told by Mike.)

Knowing this information, you should start to understand why these things aren't being developed. I can't tell you exactly why as only Mike and Manuel Schleis can do so. Based upon this information that I have available however, I would speculate that the development of any such synthesizer not generating significant profit for Manuel Schleis or otherwise in conflict with other products doing so (= nexus) would be contrary to his wishes. (clarification: what I intended to say here was simply that I believe Manuel would prefer Mike focus on Nexus rather than directing his effort elsewhere, toward projects in which Manuel was not significantly involved.)

[aciddose]

BTW, one thing I didn't get a chance to fix was that Mike attempted to implement a "set phase" function for the Nexus 2 oscillators but clearly didn't succeed. The function did create clicks, but didn't actually set the phase to the desired value (the method he used could never be made to work.)

If such a bug still exists in Nexus 2, this will demonstrate both that the programmers responsible are incapable of correctly implementing such a function as well as most likely not even aware such a problem exists.

That would turn any speculative component of my above post regarding this reason into something far more evidence based.

[Teksonik]

Interesting story. So wait if you wrote all the code for Vanguard 2 can't you just give it a new name and release it yourself ?

[aciddose]

That code belongs to refx, it was a work-for-hire. (I don't have any of it. If it still exists, it exists on his backups or current source server.)

Mike said he wouldn't use any of my code. That was part of the statement he was making which included "I don't understand your code, therefore I don't trust it."

As far as I'm aware all the effort I invested went to waste and will never be used anywhere.

I don't think I'll create this again on my own. Being paid a reasonable salary to sit in an office every day for eighteen months and work on a single project is quite different from something I do as a hobby now and then when I feel like it.

Also, don't confuse "Vanguard 2" that I worked on with what he claimed he would release a few years ago. My project was a completely new synthesizer sharing many of the features of the original but with improved flexibility, a full mod-matrix, many additional features and so on.

(By "full mod-matrix", for example you could insert a "envelope follower" effect in the effects system and take the signal and modulate any parameter with it. You might insert a phaser effect and set the filter frequency by the envelope, creating a env-follower phaser.)

Mike wanted a "virus killer". I suggested the name "Prion" although Mike insisted that he wanted to stick with the same theme as "Vanguard". He decided on "Phalanx" apparently although he remained torn between a few different names back in 2010.

What he claimed he would release several years ago was an update to the original to make it compatible with 64-bit and possibly fix some bugs. (clarification: this is merely my current understanding, it may be incorrect.)

[Teksonik]

Ha Phalanx was the name of a band I was in years ago........we sucked just as bad as Kleps-Hartmann.

[zvenx]

Isn't that what Vengeance sound named their drum/synth sampler?
Did Mike have anything to do with that one? It was advertised under refx before launch, then no more.

http://vengeance-sound.de/plugins.php?s ... %20Phalanx
rsp

[VitaminD]

Could it be a lot of work to recompile for 64 bit? No new features, just a recompilation to 64bit vst2.4