Arturia releases LEXICON LX-24

[jens]

Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. .

I would assume you should be able to get relatively close relatively easily with Valhalla Supermassive (but of course Supermassive is a lot more versatile though).

[mholloway]

Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. .

I would assume you should be able to get relatively close relatively easily with Valhalla Supermassive (but of course Supermassive is a lot more versatile though).

And why would you assume that? Sean didn't base Supermassive on the 224 at all. It's also a very difficult reverb to make sound "like" a specific other unit, because it has pretty non-standard controls, making it very hard to match anything.

Personally I doubt it's 'relatively easy' to get 'relatively close' but feel free to prove me wrong.

[vitocorleone123]

Yes, whatever I try, no matter how much I tweak it, the sounds I get out of it just sound weird somehow - It's basically nasty LoFi delay for the most part of it, I am inclined to say... if I compare it to Sonsig (which is based on/inspired by the 224 as well) there is a night and day difference, with the Sonsig completely mopping the floor with the Arturia in terms of versatility and tweakabilty, ease of useage (even the "Advanced" Arturia is just weird somehow imo) and sheer sound-quality.

I'm a big Arturia-fan, but their reverbs... I dunno - I really like Intensity, but I couldn't really get something useful out of the plate nor the spring either.

So yeah, no way Relab was involved in this one.

Sonsig is so bright (even adjusted to its darkest) I ended up selling it. I really wanted to like it, though the controls were poorly done on it - vague and unintuitive no matter how many times I read the manual. High quality sound, just not one I loved enough to keep. CRP showed how to do it right.

I think the Arturia one is far better for me (as you say: it mops the floor with Sonsig - I’d choose the Arturia 100% of the time… except for the stupid CPU usage).

[jens]

Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. .

I would assume you should be able to get relatively close relatively easily with Valhalla Supermassive (but of course Supermassive is a lot more versatile though).

And why would you assume that?

Of course because I just spent quite some time examining the LX24 and am relatively familiar with Supermassive.

[rasmusklump]

Yes, whatever I try, no matter how much I tweak it, the sounds I get out of it just sound weird somehow - It's basically nasty LoFi delay for the most part of it, I am inclined to say... if I compare it to Sonsig (which is based on/inspired by the 224 as well) there is a night and day difference, with the Sonsig completely mopping the floor with the Arturia in terms of versatility and tweakabilty, ease of useage (even the "Advanced" Arturia is just weird somehow imo) and sheer sound-quality.

I'm a big Arturia-fan, but their reverbs... I dunno - I really like Intensity, but I couldn't really get something useful out of the plate nor the spring either.

So yeah, no way Relab was involved in this one.

Sonsig is so bright (even adjusted to its darkest) I ended up selling it. I really wanted to like it, though the controls were poorly done on it - vague and unintuitive no matter how many times I read the manual. High quality sound, just not one I loved enough to keep. CRP showed how to do it right.

I think the Arturia one is far better for me (as you say: it mops the floor with Sonsig - I’d choose the Arturia 100% of the time… except for the stupid CPU usage).

Neither are the controls poorly done nor is it impossible to create darker reverbs with sonsig. Maybe you should have tried to operate it properly.

[Liero]

Yeah I'm a bit miffed by the CPU usage. I mean the reverb isn't exactly "dense" like the UVI Plate. Then again, I never use UVI Plate at any other setting than "insane" and that one really does eat an insane amount of CPU at that setting.

Anyhow, if you have any kind of loyalty price for this or even at full introductory price, it's very hard to beat Arturias new offering. It's absolutely amazing in my opinion.

I usually agree with you a lot but can't get on board with it this time. In terms of getting sounds to blend in well, feels like I can get better, cleaner results even with sparkverb, never mind plate! There's a particularly nasty high freq 'swish' if you turn up diffusion to max and try something like a pure saw pluck. To me this is just another reverb where you have to turn all the highs down any way you can to make it sound bearable. IMO raum, sparkverb, even the new baby audio verbs have this beat.

I have both sparkverb and UVI plate. The way the wrap around the source is completely different.

This one is sort of weird in that it wraps around the source but still being separated from it. Hard to explain.

I agree though about the highs, this really needs to be used the way it was used old school style, lots of high frequencies cut and just giving any source a sort of "extra mud" but in a good way. It doesn't mess with the original signals low and low-mid frequencies as it's always separated, yet "enveloped".

Would this be my desert island reverb? Hell no. Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. Everything else I have either sounds _completely_ different or when it's sort of close, it messes with the frequency response of the original source (Valhalla, NI 24/48, Sparkverb when trying to do the same thing.. etc).

So yeah, I haven't found a plugin reverb among the ones I own that can do what this does. This makes it extremely valuable in my opinion. I do remember the Lexicon native reverbs (LXP and the expensive one) being able to do something similar but the tail on those is much denser and more diffused, which again is good for many sources but not always optimal.

Makes sense if you see it mainly as a sound you can't get elsewhere. I think it's the "extra mud but in a good way" part where our subjective taste differs

[Liero]

Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. .

I would assume you should be able to get relatively close relatively easily with Valhalla Supermassive (but of course Supermassive is a lot more versatile though).

Paste a preset code? I'm skeptical because just the fundamental base sound of Supermassive seems totally different to LX24.

[bmanic]

Can it be duplicated by other reverbs, no. At least I haven't been able to do it yet. .

I would assume you should be able to get relatively close relatively easily with Valhalla Supermassive (but of course Supermassive is a lot more versatile though).

No, I wasn't able to get anywhere close to arturias rev 24. I've of course had supermassive since it was released and am using it very often. It _is_ in my opinion the best reverb plugin from Valhalla by quite a margin, but it can't do what rev 24 does. It wraps itself around the sound in a completely different manner.

I'm a bit of a reverb junkie and have amassed quite a collection over the years so I'm quite familiar and particular about each one of their capabilities. They each work for different tasks. Some are great for creating invisible layers of "woosh", some are great for emulating realistic spaces, helping things to be placed further in the mix and some are just weird sounding yet awesome in their own way.

I just like the general sound of this one on a lot of sources (usually quite complex sources with a broad range of frequencies and dynamics). It's not that great for "realistic" reverbs and it's not good at doing dense things either.. but for sparse surrounding wooosh, that doesn't affect the original dry source at all, this one is absolutely ace!

[bluesawsq]

Here is an attempt at creating LX-24 Small Hall B sound in Supermassive:

Code: Select all

<ValhallaSupermassive pluginVersion="2.5.0" presetName="LX24 Small Hall B 3.6s" Mix="1.0" DelaySync="0.25" DelayNote="0.2857142984867096" Delay_Ms="0.3589999973773956" DelayWarp="0.9340000152587891" Clear="1.0" Feedback="0.4639999866485596" Density="0.843999981880188" Width="1.0" LowCut="0.004000000189989805" HighCut="0.3840000033378601" ModRate="0.4620000123977661" ModDepth="0.363999992609024" Mode="0.75" Reserved1="0.0" Reserved2="0.0" Reserved3="0.0" Reserved4="0.0"/>

Not really anywhere as close as the plugins designed to emulate the Lexicons.
The Libra mode seems to be the only mode where you can get somewhat similar character.
Adding a steep filter after Supermassive to cut everything above 8kHz helps a lot. But the attack shape is still much faster and I couldn't find any way to make it smoother without affecting the overall tone. Adding about 10ms delay, like Voxengo Sound Delay, might help a bit.
It was also quite difficult to get rid of dissonant ringing tones in the reverb tail. Even a small change in Warp can make a big difference in those ringing tones.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You guys know that a number of the ValhallaVintageVerb algorithms, like the ConcertHall, were based on the 224 (and latter iterations) right? Seems weird to choose SuperMassive as the Valhalla plugin to compare to when you've got VVV.

And note: I don't consider VVV a 224 emulation, just like I don't consider Sonsig a 224 emulation. These may be "inspired by" but in my mind, that's the difference between writing a Beatles-esque song (inspiration) and covering a Beatles song (emulation). An emulation needs to have the same control set or directly comparable and try to match the sound of the original exactly. Sonsig/VVV are inspired by but still very different. That said, you should be able to get VVV in the ballpark of some 224 algorithms very easily.

[bluesawsq]

You guys know that a number of the ValhallaVintageVerb algorithms, like the ConcertHall, were based on the 224 (and latter iterations) right? Seems weird to choose SuperMassive as the Valhalla plugin to compare to when you've got VVV.

And note: I don't consider VVV a 224 emulation, just like I don't consider Sonsig a 224 emulation. These may be "inspired by" but in my mind, that's the difference between writing a Beatles-esque song (inspiration) and covering a Beatles song (emulation). An emulation needs to have the same control set or directly comparable and try to match the sound of the original exactly. Sonsig/VVV are inspired by but still very different. That said, you should be able to get VVV in the ballpark of some 224 algorithms very easily.

The Dirty Hall mode in VVV is closer to 224 sound than Concert Hall mode. It's not trying to be a true emulation, but you can get very close to 224 sound with some added EQ.

Creating an LX24 preset in Supermassive was just an interesting challenge.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You guys know that a number of the ValhallaVintageVerb algorithms, like the ConcertHall, were based on the 224 (and latter iterations) right? Seems weird to choose SuperMassive as the Valhalla plugin to compare to when you've got VVV.

And note: I don't consider VVV a 224 emulation, just like I don't consider Sonsig a 224 emulation. These may be "inspired by" but in my mind, that's the difference between writing a Beatles-esque song (inspiration) and covering a Beatles song (emulation). An emulation needs to have the same control set or directly comparable and try to match the sound of the original exactly. Sonsig/VVV are inspired by but still very different. That said, you should be able to get VVV in the ballpark of some 224 algorithms very easily.

The Dirty Hall mode in VVV is closer to 224 sound than Concert Hall mode. It's not trying to be a true emulation, but you can get very close to 224 sound with some added EQ.

Creating an LX24 preset in Supermassive was just an interesting challenge.

You sir are correct. The Concert Hall algo in VVV was based on the structure of the Lexi original, but the Dirty Hall was refined to be even closer and dialed in against a 224 and includes the 8k cutoff of the 224 when in 70s mode. That is indeed worth pointing out!

Fair enough about the interesting challenge point. Sometimes it's fun to go down those rabbit holes.

[vitocorleone123]

Yes, whatever I try, no matter how much I tweak it, the sounds I get out of it just sound weird somehow - It's basically nasty LoFi delay for the most part of it, I am inclined to say... if I compare it to Sonsig (which is based on/inspired by the 224 as well) there is a night and day difference, with the Sonsig completely mopping the floor with the Arturia in terms of versatility and tweakabilty, ease of useage (even the "Advanced" Arturia is just weird somehow imo) and sheer sound-quality.

I'm a big Arturia-fan, but their reverbs... I dunno - I really like Intensity, but I couldn't really get something useful out of the plate nor the spring either.

So yeah, no way Relab was involved in this one.

Sonsig is so bright (even adjusted to its darkest) I ended up selling it. I really wanted to like it, though the controls were poorly done on it - vague and unintuitive no matter how many times I read the manual. High quality sound, just not one I loved enough to keep. CRP showed how to do it right.

I think the Arturia one is far better for me (as you say: it mops the floor with Sonsig - I’d choose the Arturia 100% of the time… except for the stupid CPU usage).

Neither are the controls poorly done nor is it impossible to create darker reverbs with sonsig. Maybe you should have tried to operate it properly.

Super helpful comment. Maybe you should've tried to respond like an adult.

Sonsig at its darkest is still brighter than I prefer - I also already have one bright reverb that I also preferred to Sonsig (my Meris Mercury 7), and that's enough bright reverbs for me. I bought Sonsig when it came out and had it for well over a year or more before deciding to sell it, replacing it with things that sounded better to me, like Cinematic Rooms Pro and TaiChi. Sorry if your delicate sensibilities were offended, but I simply didn't love the reverb despite wanting to and trying to. It's okay to have different preferences. Really, it's okay.

[bluesawsq]

Is there any good audio examples showing what the DECAY OPT is supposed to do?

Arturia LX-24 user manual describes it like this:

DECAY OPT: Improves the naturalness of the decay by altering internal
parameters in response to changes in the input level. It can tell the difference
between drums and vocals and adjusts its parameters correctly for each. It
increases the clarity and reduces the coloration of the decay, but can also make
the decay uneven on some sources. A higher parameter setting means less
effect.

...

Decay optimization (on/off toggle + stepped control 1-16) : Improves the naturalness of the
decay by altering internal parameters in response to changes in the input level. It can tell
the difference between drums and vocals and adjusts its parameters correctly for each. It
increases the clarity and reduces the coloration of the decay, but can make it uneven. Lower
values make the effect stronger.

And in release notes:

V 1.0.0.3771

Content update:

Decay optimization values have been updated on several factory presets to lower the amount of emulated digital defects.

When playing some long static synth pad or just plain sine wave with constant volume, I would expect the DECAY OPT to do nothing, because the input level is not changing (or the level is changing very fast at audio rate). However, the DECAY OPT is producing clearly audible random clicks/pops/crackles. At DECAY OPT value 1 there are lots of clicks. Setting the value to 16 reduces the amount of clicks but there are still some click at 16. The DECAY OPT needs to be disabled completely to get clean sound.

Is this really how the Lexicon hardware works?
And is the DECAY OPT doing also something else, maybe something more useful, than generating random digital click defects? Would be nice to hear some good audio examples of the DECAY OPT doing the thing described in manual: "Improves the naturalness of the decay".

[j wazza]

i think eareverb has a similar colour to this one, thats not a lexicon though. All the lexicon plugins seem to sound different from each other so no idea which is the closest. I know there's relab, arturia, lexicons own plugins, UAD, softube/NI and IRs. exponential audio is also the same guy as lexicon but they sound pretty different