hmmm...

[Barbarossa]

Koolkeys,
since i come from Logic, ofcourse i use the available keycommands.

But the hotkeys do not solve my problems, because they don't help, when it comes to vertical navigation, do they?

My edits usually have more than 30 used tracks, then comes a handful of subgroups, then the original MIDI-tracks, around 10-20 and around 10-20 reference tracks.
That is AWFUL to navigate.

In Logic i have 5-10 folder tracks and it costs me between one or two touches of a button(!), depending on the screenset#, to get the view of the track i want!
Scrolling around with the mousewheel is compared to Logic like sequencer stoneage. Really.
I guess you never worked with Logic?


@Lunch Money,
no i'm not a mixer-surface guy. That's my problem! I can't go back to Logic anymore, since the audio-flexibility in T let's me do things, that take ages in Logic. In T i have a collection of rack-filters and insert them when needed. That's all.

I can't go back to this old sequencer concepts, since for me T's positive aspects (mostly due to audio-flexibility) outweigh the negative ones by far, but the negative aspects make working with T very exhausting.

[koolkeys]

I have worked with Logic, but in a very limited manner, and not the newest versions. Only since it was on PC.

I will agree that Logic probably has many more ways of getting around and organizing. But Logic has been around for a longer time frame. An excuse? No, not really. Mackie has to decide day by day what features they want to add. But for every feature they add for users, some users won't get the features they want. It's that way with any software. And every software, including Tracktion, has it's share of features that it excels at.

Logic is VERY robust, and VERY powerful, no doubting that. But for some, it's not the best way of working. To me, there's nothing greater than drag and drop everything, such as effects and such. Re-order them in an instant. So for me, I've chosen Tracktion.

To be fair, I think every sequencer out there has features that I would like to see in Tracktion. But give it time. Tracktion is still young compared to most of them. And until recently, HAS only had a single developer. I'm hoping that the best days are to come. There's no use fighting each other about it. Or debating how "professional" it is, when there's no way to settle these things.

I apolagize if I've benn harsh in this thread towards anyone. I've been pretty frustrated at some things lately, especially this week. Not exactly enjoying things right now. Life deals you a few cards now and then that you don't know how to play.

Bottom line is this. Tracktion is a work in progress, as is any software. It has bugs, like any software. It has lacking areas, like any software. And it's NOT for everyone, like any software. It's just another option in a hobby/profession that isn't even about the software. It's about the music, and whatever gets it done for you. I can work with huge projects, but some people can't with Tracktion. The mouse wheel does fantastic for me in Tracktion. But it won't for everyone.

Again, it's about the music. Now, I feel a song coming on. Must get back to the parents after I write it down. Peace.

Koolkeys

[aldi]

I make my living from recording and producing bands in my studio and other studios since 18 years, also i mixe livegigs and i am a musician myself in different bands since 22 years .for example one of my bands www.elektroprobe.de (recorded and mixed by me with tracktion) i am the singer (the one with the black hair and black shirt with collar). i also programm different stuff (some vst plugins like bombthatbeat or p1-tapedelay). i wasn't telling you just my opinion. some time back i was a big fan of tracktion and so i tell friends to use it. now many of these made the same experiences like me. some things in tracktion are taking just too long or are real showstopers for some kind of projects. the slow gui behavior on a big screenresolution or many tracks and the missing ofsetsnap and missing gouping are the biggest ones. i myself don't need timestretch but i know at least 6 people who use it everyday (for jingles, commercials...). i'm still hanging around here, because i still hope for these 3 features and i know that i could implement offsetsnap in tracktion in 1 day or a few hours because like greg said, it's allready in there, but only while moving two clips (so what makes them wait to do it for one clip ???). so that's why i hate mackie. ther may be some FR too complicated to implement but some are very easy. so go and do it.
its all about workflow and i know this. i coded bombthatbeat 2 years before every other drumloop rearranging vsti plugin.
like lunch said, a "proffessional" knows what tool to use for a job, and so i sadly had to choose an other software for lots of jobs till some things gets sorted out

[Lunch Money]

Word.

Now, since we all agree now (or have agreed to disagree), the next step is to get aldi to start using capital letters and paragraph breaks. Then there won't be any further breakdowns of communication.

[aldi]

oHyeS,so

rrYfOrthAt

[AD80]

I got here late, somebody summerize the last 17 pages for me.

[freeztar]

hmmmm....

You didn't miss anything. Some Mackie bashing, some Tracktion defense, some frustration, and some good points.

Sound familiar...

[AD80]

hmmmm....

You didn't miss anything. Some Mackie bashing, some Tracktion defense, some frustration, and some good points.

Sound familiar...

Thanks.

[Lunch Money]

Yeah, that pretty much covers it. Nothing new here. Move along.

[Jeremy_NSL]

he shouldnt take it to heart phil ...

Actually, Rob, he's not terribly upset (!) but the signal-to-noise ratio of the forum often now increases to the point where it can be a long process to actually address genuine individual problems without getting embroiled in some life-sapping side-issues...

IMO signal-to-noise ratio here is bad precisely because Jules/Mackie basically cut off communication. So now you guys use that as an excuse for not posting here again?? Thats a ridiculous statement.

[koolkeys]

Who said it was an excuse? If I were Jules, I'd get tired of some of the crap here also. And if anyone here knows Jules, Philip does. Maybe you just mis-understood, but I just saw a legitimate reason to lay low.

To aldi, I have no doubt about your professionalism. However, it's not always knowing WHAT tools to use, it's knowing how to use the tools you have. Professionals do that. Some have the money to get whatever they want, but it's not always plausible.

You say you "hate" Mackie, however they have done nothing to you. Some people post here with the intent of only raising crap like this. 90% of the posts you have here seem to bash Mackie. Ok, we know you have some beef with Mackie. If it really bothers you THAT much, then maybe you're not acting very professional. It's obvious from posts here and many users I know who don't post here that Tracktion is a professional tool. There are NO facts to negate that argument. Period. What seems to be the only fact you ever prove is that you hate Mackie. You take every opportunity to bash them, and barely ever do you have a valid reason to show. You just do it constantly.

People have a problem with me posting some things here, like my defending of Mackie.Yet, time after time, when arguing, nobody comes up with any facts to counter my arguments. I look at things with a level head. Maybe you need to do that and just concede that Tracktion won't work for you. Hey, it doesn't for everyone. But if you can't do anything but bash Mackie, it seems you won't be happy at all.

I defend Mackie because it's not fair to Mackie, Jules, or Tracktion to be unfairly bashed by people who let their opinions get in the way of logical thinking. It really shouldn't get to me, but it does sometimes. It's hard to keep my mouth shut sometimes. But maybe I should give it up. Who really cares anyway, right?

Koolkeys

[koolkeys]

By the way, when I said there's a reason to lay low, I meant Jules. I still believe Mackie should show themselves more. But there isn't a requirement here. I just think it would be nice.

[Barbarossa]

Koolkeys,
if you don't even see the brought up problems (NOT feature requests!) with T being explained in detail, as arguments, then we can immediately stop this discussion...

[headquest]

I think it is absurd for anyone to say they "Hate" a company unless they have been royally screwed. And I don't see much evidence that Mackie have screwed any customers at all. People who claim to "hate" Mackie sometimes imply that they "loved" Jules, but the truth of the matter is that most of them have never even met him. So they are using hyperbolic language, which is misleading to others, and it is natural that people will want to defend Mackie in the interests of restoring balance.

However, there are some issues that have led some to question Mackie's competence or intentions:

* repeatedly missing advertised deadlines
* apparently slow response in dealing with the bugs in T2
* many have found T2 less stable or more buggy than T1 was
* failure to address long-standing bugs from T1
* apparently slow development when compared to "others" (and saying it is a one-man-development-show is clearly no longer a valid excuse for this)
* ineffective worldwide distribution of T2 when it was launched
* arguably mishandled marketing campaign (dodgy videos, etc - not portraying T2 as seriously as some would have liked)
* preferential treatment of US customers in terms of rebates on T2
* lack of communication/information about tracktion's present and future development
* unresponsive forum interaction (Beno is great, but his hands are so ovbiously tied)

I hasten to add that I don't personally agree with all these points, but they have all been raised in recent months. And I think we should all be honest here - it IS quite a list!

None of this should add up to "hating" Mackie, as that is too extreem an emotion (and wold be an unhealthy way to respond, surely?). But this does explain why some here have gripes with Mackie, and I do think that at least some of these gripes are justified

People will probably only move on from feeling this way if either they swap to a different sequencer, or Mackie address their concerns openly and honestly, and demonstrate a willingness to improve their approach to customers.

[pHz]

while i couldnt / wouldnt argue with some of those gripes (although - surpise surprise - i WOULD take issue with some of them but thats been done enough here already) its also worth remembering that mackie ARE BY NO MEANS THE ONLY audio software development company 'guilty' of those (and in some cases other) marketing / PR misdemeanours ...

... and of course ... some companies are VERY good at the marketing / PR side of things (and yes headquest ... i WOULD put ableton in that category even if they also produce light-hearted / quirky videos from time to time) ...

... my hope is that since mackie are relatively new to the audio SOFTWARE (by its nature different to hardware) field that they will take notice of any constructive criticism here and elsewhere and things WILL improve in the future (my own dealings with mackie - while obviously not always that of customer to company - suggest that they DO listen and ARE wanting to try and improve things and ARE committed to tracktion as a product) ...

slainte rob