KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:45 pm

[DELETED]

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:57 pm

Ah Xoc Kin wrote:
audientronic wrote:I'm reading a lot of folks who say if you take the time to dig into the manual, you'll discover most of the supposed "shortcomings" are a lack of operator's knowledge.
Indeed. IIRC there are some options for dealing with transients, as well as 2 limiting stages. It may not be perfect but IMO it usually pays to read the manual (or watch some tutorials)

Hardly. It's just not nearly as good at preserving the original dynamics and the transient response (the main requirements as I understood from the first post) as a much better limiter like FG-X, no matter how you set it up, at any amount of gain reduction (including low or moderate, as stated). As far as "character" goes, it has much more to do with its compression than limiting behavior, and its comparably lower "transparency" as well as unwanted dynamics modification like severe "pulsing/pumping", make it less suitable considering the requirements. Well, that's just how I see it. I don't want to spoil any fun and if you (OP) are satisfied with your decision then I really am glad for you.

Ah Xoc Kin · Post by **Ah Xoc Kin** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:03 pm

Shy wrote:
Ah Xoc Kin wrote:
audientronic wrote:I'm reading a lot of folks who say if you take the time to dig into the manual, you'll discover most of the supposed "shortcomings" are a lack of operator's knowledge.
Indeed. IIRC there are some options for dealing with transients, as well as 2 limiting stages. It may not be perfect but IMO it usually pays to read the manual (or watch some tutorials)
Hardly. It's just not nearly as good at preserving the original dynamics and the transient response (the main requirements as I understood from the first post) as a much better limiter like FG-X, no matter how you set it up, at any amount of gain reduction (including low or moderate, as stated). As far as "character" goes, it has much more to do with its compression than limiting behavior, and its comparably lower "transparency" as well as unwanted dynamics modification like severe "pulsing/pumping", make it less suitable considering the requirements. Well, that's just how I see it. I don't want to spoil any fun and if you (OP) are satisfied with your decision then I really am glad for you.

Hardly what?
As I said, there are some options for dealing with transients. At least 3 buttons and a knob, as explained in the manual.
Also from the manual, regarding the limiting stages I mentioned:
"PSP Xenon's limiter section consists of two processing stages. The first section applies the initial gain reduction while allowing the transients to exceed the ceiling level...The transients which pass through the first stage are then subject to processing by the second stage of PSP Xenon's limiter section. This stage provides fail-safe (brickwall) limiting..."

I did not write about FG-X vs. Xenon. For fun I just compared them. Had to re-do the comparison since VBC Rack kept on crashing DSP-Quattro. I then very quickly set the following:
Rough unmastered mix --> Kush UBK-1 --> Verb Session --> FG-X or Xenon
https://soundcloud.com/ah-xoc-kin/sets/ ... n-fg-x-and

I think both sound good. Sorry for the rough mix.

As I said, it usually pays to read the manual. That reminds me that the FG-X's manual has mistakes that have not been addressed in over a year. Nothing against FG-X in terms of its capabilities and sound. I often use it. Too bad it's a resource hog and 32-bit only on the Mac, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:37 pm

Ah Xoc Kin wrote:Hardly what?

Hardly pays off (as in it really doesn't) to try to set it up to sound as good as a much better limiter like FG-X, which even in the comparison you posted, is clearly much better at preserving the dynamics without seriously squashing transients like Xenon.

Sparky77 · Post by **Sparky77** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:23 am

I have had good experiences working with Xenon.
I started to have some troubles with the functionality a while back so I stopped using it.

Now with the new update I am looking forward to using it again.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:59 am

[DELETED]

audientronic · Post by **audientronic** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:04 am

Sale is still up on PSP site. Though resellers took it down yesterday.

Ah Xoc Kin · Post by **Ah Xoc Kin** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:11 am

Shy wrote:
Ah Xoc Kin wrote:Hardly what?
Hardly pays off (as in it really doesn't) to try to set it up to sound as good as a much better limiter like FG-X, which even in the comparison you posted, is clearly much better at preserving the dynamics without seriously squashing transients like Xenon.

Perhaps. Having both I can happily use Xenon within my DAW. The same can't be said for FG-X.
One thing the comparison shows is that Xenon is a very capable plugin, even if it does not match the features of FG-X (e.g., compressor, limiter, transients (ITP).
For $79 it's a great deal (IMHO).

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:42 am

TheoM wrote:
Shy wrote:
Ah Xoc Kin wrote:Hardly what?
Hardly pays off (as in it really doesn't) to try to set it up to sound as good as a much better limiter like FG-X, which even in the comparison you posted, is clearly much better at preserving the dynamics without seriously squashing transients like Xenon.
So what's your take on the fgx ISP issue? I guess you must agree with slate then that thousands of ISPs don't matter?

ISP's don't really matter at all in my opinion. 99.9% of all commercial top 100 releases in the past 10 years contain inter sample peaks. Have they ever bothered you? Heck, most of the releases when it was at it's worst with clipping the AD converter, around 2003-2004, have MASSIVE clipped waves.. like 20 to 30 samples consecutive clips. Just for fun you can rip some of those CDs if you have any laying around. Then play them back in a host like Reaper which can show you the ISP, or better yet, analyze them in Wavelab. You'll see theoretical analogue peaks as high as +3dB! Yeah, these releases can sound like shit on Spotify or similar services but other than that, I don't think having a few +0.2dB ISPs at a fraction of a millisecond being a real problem. If it's constant then of course it can get irritating.

I feel like the whole fuzz about inter sample peaks was created as a marketing thing.. (probably TC Electronics being most vocal in the early 00's) and heavily endorsed by people like Bob Katz (who frankly means absolutely nothing in the world of mastering when it comes to POPULAR music, aka the "big names", imho. I'd take anything he says with a massive doze of salt).

Anyhow, it's all a moot point now.. we are aggressively going forward into the LUFS era meaning you don't have to worry about peaks no more.

Cheers!
bManic

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:35 am

I'm playing with Xenon right now at my song, a beat-heavy transe track. I cannot say I experience any transient loss nor does the dynamics of the track changes to bad. I do up to 4 dB GR at loudest parts on this song (about -9 dbfs RMS, pretty hot). Tried to replace it with Barricade in this project, but liked Xenon more, it gives more coherent and punchy sound. I also have PSP Mastercomp before Xenon doing additional 1 dB GR. I think, the PSP guys may have adapted these two tools to work well together.

The transient behavious of Xenon is indeed pretty controllable. Th manual explains this well.

So I don't feel my 66 bucks wasted. Maybe if someday I become sure that it is the Xenon "flawed" algorithms what holds me back, I'll test it against Pro-L, but this day is nowhere near close.

Kevin63101 · Post by **Kevin63101** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:50 pm

I have T-RackS CS Grand limiters and Sonnox Limiter -- both which I like and use regularly. Is Xenon going make a significant difference from using these?

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:22 am

just thought i'd point out that Xenon is back on sale. You can currently get it for $70.00

https://www.pspaudioware.net/register/store.php

I just read this joint review and it seemed to sum up both Pro-L and Xenon pretty well.

http://audioproductiontips.wordpress.co ... nt-review/

Hermetech Mastering · Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:56 am

And it was recently updated to version 1.5.0. I bought a license a couple of years ago but never really gelled with it, have been using Elephant 100% of the time, but perhaps I should give it another try!

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:51 am

I'm nowhere near being a professional mastering engineer, but for my DIY quick mastering purposes Xenon does the job. I compared it with the limiter in Ozone 5 (demo) and didn't hear notable difference in overall quality (although the character is apparently different), and I like Xenon more than TB Barricade which I also have. I do dance stuff and usually set it to up to 4 dB GR.

So I can say I'm happy with Xenon and don't need another limiter ATM.

waltercruz · Post by **waltercruz** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:21 pm

Hi

being a KVRian, and suffering from G.A.S. attack, maybe I have more plugins than I need

I'm thinking about selling Xenon or Elephant in the Market Place. So, between Xenon and Elephant 4.. which one do you guys would keep?

What do you think about PSP Xenon?