KVR Audio

GabryRox · Post by **GabryRox** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:09 pm

I also wanted to thank members who recommended looking into Bitwig. I had not really considered this option in the past but the more i read about it the more i want to give it at least a good solid demo. However, the thing that puts me off a bit is the their demo appears to have no save functionality, which to me seems like a big detractor. I rarely have 4-5 hours at a time to sit down and dedicate to DAW experimenting so if i cannot save my work from a 1-2 hour session, that is quite bothersome. I may still try it but not sure why they dont allow full functionality in order to properly test... a la Ableton.

There is one thing about Bitwig that I wanted to ask about in relation to price. I see that Bitwig Studio goes for $299 (via their website and most other outlets). BUT... I also see this combo pack with an Arturia Key Lab 25 ($250 value) and Arturia's Mini V soft synth ($99 value) for an amazingly low price... just $299 at B&H (link below). How can it be possible that you get $350 worth of extras for the same price as buying standalone Bitwig? It seems there is only 1 version of Bitwig so I don't think that this is a stripped down "Intro" version a la Ableton. Is there something that I am missing here?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... ducer.html

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:01 pm

If they haven't changed anything since the last time I checked, you can actually save your projects pretty easily in the demo, since Bitwig allows you to save clips and multitrack clips. You drag a clip over to the browser to save it, and this will save the clip content as well as the devices and plugs on the track, so you can recall it 100% later. If you group a bunch of tracks you'll see black group clips in the group tracks, and if you drag those over it will save the child clips and tracks. So you can create a group for your whole project and save it as a group clip. You might have to create a track with a project long clip in it to close to gaps in the group clip. You'll see what I mean when you try it.

As for the deal, I think it's legit. There is an intro version of Bitwig called "Bitwig 8 track" but that looks like the full version there. I remember that package or one like it came out shortly after release and some of us who had bought Bitwig alone at the original price were bummed.

GabryRox · Post by **GabryRox** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:44 pm

Thanks for the feedback Ogopogo... I will give that method a try after I download and start playing with the demo.

It was the statement below from Bitwigs Demo Download page that worried me... but maybe that statement means something else, or maybe that no-saving lockdown occurs after the 30-day trial. Either way I will give it a try.

"If you have not purchased a license, the application will run in demo mode with saving and exporting disabled."

About that Arturia deal... It does indeed appear to be the full version in the few places I have seen it. The interesting thing is that I am actually in the market for a 25-key controller that will be mobile. I have an MPK-249 as my main controller but I'm not gonna lug that thing around or even bring it downstairs with my laptop. My first choice really would not have been the arturia but this deal may be too good to pass up. I also don't need the Mini-V since I already have their V-Collection that includes it, but I could try to sell that license.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:26 pm

saving is disabled via the regular file/save (as) menu in the demo. But since it is possible in Bitwig to save the tracks itself, even whole group tracks with everything in them by dragging them into the library, you can kinda work around it.

Have fun, BWS rocks

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:27 pm

...or just get BitWig 8-track for free at beat.de, by selecting issue 120 and providing an email

http://www.serialcenter.de/

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:32 am

Are there any other limitations with Bitwig 8-Track besides 8 tracks?

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:19 am

pdxindy wrote:Are there any other limitations with Bitwig 8-Track besides 8 tracks?

Yes there are many limitations! You can only insert two VST instruments (so only two tracks of the eight are allowed to be VST). And only one VST effect per track (I'm little not so sure about that now! I can't remember now, but there is a limitation about the effect). Oh, and just one Hardware instrument track.

The good thing about 8-trk version is that it has all the functionality of the full version, so it is a great way to evaluate Bitwig. There are all the effects and instruments of Bitwig (minus many drum kits and contents that comes with the full version). So, I bought the 8-trk first from the Market Place here for $10 or $15 (I don't remember now) and I could test all the functionality. You can insert one Drum Machine (like in Ableton Live, the mixer shows the sub tracks of it) and you can insert FM4 and Polysynth on the other 7 tracks if you want.

When you exceed the number of the tracks, you enter the demo mode. Anyway, it was a great experience and after time, I began to hunt for the full version.

Although I like Bitwig a lot and till now the most fit DAW for me, but I also like a lot Ableton Live. IMO, there are few things different. I can also work in Live pleasantly (I have the intro version). So, for me Bitwig comes randomly first (between Bitwig studio and Live standard). The two are fantastic DAWs IMO and very similar in the workflow.

@OP, you will be happy with whatever you choose, but keep in mind that Bitwig doesn't support ReWire out of the box while Live does, and also that Bitwig can use 32bit and 64bit plugins in the same song (the two versions appear in the browser) while Live has two versions 32bit and 64bit. So, you have something but miss something here, however, IMO nothing I call show stopper

audio/fault · Post by **audio/fault** » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:32 am

GabryRox wrote:I was hoping for President's day since Guitar Center & a lot of other music vendors have big sales, but nothing was offered from Ableton. Is the next one likely not coming till mid-year? Like around July 4th?

i don't think anyone here in berlin cares as much about presidential day (only know about this through simpsons

, but not why and when) or july 4th to let this be a reason for a sale...
to answer your question: it's not predictable. but usually they have about 2-3 sales per year.

taoyoyo · Post by **taoyoyo** » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:34 pm

GabryRox wrote:
About that Arturia deal... It does indeed appear to be the full version in the few places I have seen it. The interesting thing is that I am actually in the market for a 25-key controller that will be mobile. I have an MPK-249 as my main controller but I'm not gonna lug that thing around or even bring it downstairs with my laptop. My first choice really would not have been the arturia but this deal may be too good to pass up. I also don't need the Mini-V since I already have their V-Collection that includes it, but I could try to sell that license.

... Just a headsup on the Arturia keyboards. You might want to try one in person before buying... I sprung for the deal a year or so and wasn't impressed by the quality of the keyboard at all. (Ended up selling it).

GabryRox · Post by **GabryRox** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:10 am

audio/fault wrote:
GabryRox wrote:I was hoping for President's day since Guitar Center & a lot of other music vendors have big sales, but nothing was offered from Ableton. Is the next one likely not coming till mid-year? Like around July 4th?
i don't think anyone here in berlin cares as much about presidential day (only know about this through simpsons , but not why and when) or july 4th to let this be a reason for a sale...
to answer your question: it's not predictable. but usually they have about 2-3 sales per year.

I realize that Ableton is a German company. The reason I mentioned those 2 dates was because that's when the big music stores here in the US typically have huge sales (got both my Fantom-X6 & Akai MPK-249 for deep savings during these times at my local Guitar Center).

I also know that nobody in Germany gives a flip about US-only holidays... kinda like most people in the US dont know or care about other country's holidays... well, except for Cinco De Mayo lol. BUT... here's the thing... Ableton sells a crapload of of product to customers in the US, right? I would bet that we are their largest customers. So, given this, I wouldn't think it would be very hard to believe that they would align sales to some US holidays.

But bottom line... thanks for answering my question about lack of predictability... I kind of expected as much (outside of the black friday deal that seems to be pretty predictable).

GabryRox · Post by **GabryRox** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:14 am

taoyoyo wrote:
GabryRox wrote:
About that Arturia deal... It does indeed appear to be the full version in the few places I have seen it. The interesting thing is that I am actually in the market for a 25-key controller that will be mobile. I have an MPK-249 as my main controller but I'm not gonna lug that thing around or even bring it downstairs with my laptop. My first choice really would not have been the arturia but this deal may be too good to pass up. I also don't need the Mini-V since I already have their V-Collection that includes it, but I could try to sell that license.
... Just a headsup on the Arturia keyboards. You might want to try one in person before buying... I sprung for the deal a year or so and wasn't impressed by the quality of the keyboard at all. (Ended up selling it).

Thanks for the heads-up taoyoyo... I had read some less than glowing reviews about Arturia hardware, and to be honest, coming from experience with my Fantom X6 and more recently, Akai MPK-249, I expect both are built way better than that Arturia. The Akai is surprisingly amazing quality from top to bottom. When I demoed the Akai, i also played around with a comparably-priced novation and it seemed WAY more flimsy than the Akai. Obvsiously the pads on the Akai are stellar but the keys are what really stood out as way better quality than the competition. Granted, a 25-key would only get used sparingly but i still need to look at a few before deciding.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:10 am

Really? I find Akai keys awfull, Novation Remote SL had way better keys. And obviously Roland controllers have very good keys.

GabryRox · Post by **GabryRox** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:16 am

Yes... at least on the Mk2 versions of their MPK series. I admit i never tried an Akai (keyboard) prior to this so maybe they made a big improvement from their earlier attempts. To me they feel very sturdy... maybe somewhere between synth action and fully weighted, but closer to fully weighted. I can't remember which Novation I tried but since I'm in the marked for a 25-key controller, I may take a look at them again as well.

Musical Gym · Post by **Musical Gym** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:26 am

Numanoid wrote:...or just get BitWig 8-track for free at beat.de, by selecting issue 120 and providing an email

http://www.serialcenter.de/

Is that legit? No subscription needed first?

kaspy003 · Post by **kaspy003** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:31 am

Main main daw in past 5 years was ableton 8&9.
I like concept and workflow.
But then i tested Bitwig Studio and purchased license year ago. I love it. Now i use ableton only for mix my radio show.
So more fun work with Bitwig in projects and much more better GUI!
Of Course i'm waiting Ableton 10.

Pros of Ableton (in my opinion):
- EQ with built in Analyzer!
- Much better stretching algorithms
- Many built in plugins
- Horizontal zoom in arrangement (you can extend clips height)
- Better midi export

Pros of Bitwig (in my opinion):
- 32/64bit (bridge) plugin support
- PLUG-IN SANDBOXING!!! No more app crash for unstable vst's

- New popup plugin/sampes/devices/presets browser!!!
- Audio samples / Instrument & device preset hot swap!
- Mixer layout
- Midi/Audio layered edit!!!
- Bounce in place
- Keyboard/Shortcut mappings
- multi monitor setup (i use up to three screens)

I think Ableton 10 will be released in this year, and i think it will be huge update!!!!

PS sorry for my english!

Opinions on Live 10 release date & next Ableton sale?